* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [1. Call Meeting to Order] [00:00:02] GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. IT IS SIX O'CLOCK AND WE WILL CALL TO ORDER THIS MEETING, THE JOINT MEETING OF THE ADDISON CITY COUNCIL PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION. AND I'LL CALL TO ORDER THE ADDISON CITY COUNCIL. WE DO HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT WITH ALL MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL HERE, EXCEPT FOR ONE. SO WE DO HAVE SIX MEMBERS PRESENT. AND I'LL LET DENISE DO THE OTHER. I'LL OPEN THIS, UH, JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING AND ZONING AND CITY COUNCIL. UH, WE HAVE A QUORUM WITH TWO MEMBERS MISSING. THANK YOU, DENISE. AND AS ALWAYS, WE'D LIKE TO START OUR MEETING WITH THE PLEDGES TO THE FLAGS. IF YOU PLEASE RISE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE RAW HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE TEXAS ONE STATE UNDER GOD, ONE IN INDIVISIBLE. SORRY TO THROW THAT ON Y'ALL. NEITHER GUY GREW UP IN. ALRIGHT, WELL WE HAVE, [1. Present and discuss the Sign and Wireless Communication Facility (WCF) and Administrative Procedures sections of the Unified Development Code (UDC).] UH, WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON OUR AGENDA TONIGHT. THE, UH, THE ITEM IS TO PRESENT AND DISCUSS THE SIGN AND WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITY, WCF AND ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES, SECTION SECTIONS OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE UDC, KEN. GOOD EVENING MAYOR. CITY COUNCIL PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION MEMBERS, UH, WELCOME BACK TO, UH, ONE OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT'S, UH, LONGSTANDING STRATEGIC INITIATIVES. UH, LONGSTANDING IS A KEY TERM HERE 'CAUSE THIS HAS, UH, BEEN A PROJECT THAT'S ON, BEEN ONGOING FOR SOME TIME. IT, UH, KICKED OFF IN 2019 AND DUE TO A GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND VARIOUS STAFFING CHANGES AND WORKLOAD VARIATIONS, IT'S A PROJECT THAT HAS HAD SOME, UH, STRATEGIC PAUSES AND WE'RE ABOUT TO LEAVE, UH, THAT PHASE OF THE PROJECT AND, UH, MOVE TOWARDS FINISHING THIS OUT AND ADOPTING A NEW CODE FOR THE TOWN. SO THAT PROCESS IS GONNA START TONIGHT. UH, WE DID SOME WORK, UH, EARLIER, UH, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, UH, WITH THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. UH, WE MET AGAIN WITH THEM TODAY. UH, AND THE WORK WE'RE GONNA DO TONIGHT IS GONNA START WITH A DEEP DIVE, UH, INTO, UH, THE, UH, SECTION OF THE CODE THAT ADDRESSES SIGNS. UH, OBVIOUSLY AN IMPORTANT TOPIC HERE IN ADDISON. UH, AND THEN WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO INTRODUCE A VERY MEATY PORTION OF THE CODE, BUT ONE THAT IS, UH, CRITICAL, PARTICULARLY TO THE WORK THAT MY STAFF DOES IN PROCESSING ALL THE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS THAT ARE, UH, COME BEFORE YOU. AND ALSO THOSE THAT ARE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY ARE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES, SECTION OF THE CODE. UM, SO WITH THAT, UH, WE'RE GONNA START VERY BRIEFLY WITH INTRODUCTIONS, UH, BEGINNING, UH, WITH OUR PROJECT CONSULTANT, WHO SOME OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH. BUT FOR SOME, UH, THIS WILL BE AN INTRODUCTION. UH, SO OUR TEAM IS, UH, UH, FROM CLARION ASSOCIATES. THEY ARE A LAND USE AND, UH, PLANNING AND, UH, ZONING, UH, UH, CONSULTANT FIRM, UH, BASED OUTTA DENVER, COLORADO. THEY ALSO HAVE A, A NORTH CAROLINA OFFICE. AND, UH, WE'RE JOINED BY ONE OF THEIR PRINCIPALS, MATT GOBEL AND HIS ASSOCIATE GABBY HART. AND TO INTRODUCE OUR TEAM, UH, TO, UH, OUR CONSULTANTS, IF WE COULD START, UH, WITH CITY COUNCIL AND THEN WORK OUR WAY, UH, THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. AND WE'LL KICK OFF THE PRESENTATION. SO THANK YOU. DAN, YOU WANNA START ON YOUR END? WE'LL GO RUN THIS WAY. I'M DAN CIO. COULD YOU DO MICROPHONE, PLEASE? I'M DAN CIO, MARLON WILLISON. AARON GARDNER. NANCY CRAIG, WO . DAVID GAINES, CITY MANAGER. AND I'M BRUCE ARSON, MAYOR DENISE LER, B AND Z CHAIR. DIANE CHAVEZ. CHELSEA SMITH, JIMMY BARKER, TOM BROWN, NICOLE CO. CITY ATTORNEY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU ALL FOR THE REINTRODUCTIONS. IT'S GOOD TO BE BACK, UM, RECOGNIZE A FEW FACES, SO IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. BUT WE ALSO HAVE SOME NEW FACES. SO, UH, WE WANTED TO START THE PRESENTATION BY GOING BACK A LITTLE BIT, UH, THROUGH JUST THE, THE OVERALL SCOPE OF THE PROJECT TO MAKE SURE, UH, WE HAVE SOME CONTEXT FOR THE MATERIAL THAT WE'RE GONNA PRESENT TONIGHT. SO, UH, AGAIN, MY NAME IS MATT GOBLE. I'M THE PROJECT MANAGER, UH, I WORK WITH WITH GABBY. WE'RE BASED IN DENVER. WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT TEAM MEMBER WHO'S NOT HERE TONIGHT. JIM DOHERTY. HE'S A TEXAS LAND USE LAWYER, AND HE'S BEEN ESPECIALLY VALUABLE IN DRAFTING SOME OF THE MATERIAL THAT YOU'LL SEE TONIGHT IN TERMS OF [00:05:01] JUST, YOU KNOW, KEEPING, UH, UP TO THE CHANGES IN, IN TEXAS LAW, THE, THE CHANGES IN IN THE SHOT CLOCKS, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO JIM HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN THE MATERIAL THAT YOU'LL SEE TONIGHT. UM, THIS IS THE OVERALL CALENDAR AND, AND SCOPE OF SERVICES, UH, SUMMARIZED ON ONE SLIDE. AND LIKE KEN SAID, WE STARTED A WHILE BACK, IT WAS ACTUALLY THE END OF 2018, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. AND WE, UH, CAME ON BOARD TO HELP THE CITY REWRITE ITS DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES. WE TALKED WITH A LOT OF FOLKS, A LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS IN ADDISON ABOUT DEVELOPMENT. WHAT WAS WORKING WELL, WHAT COULD BE IMPROVED ABOUT THE PROCESS. UM, WE, UH, TALKED WITH CITIZENS, WE TALKED WITH PROPERTY OWNERS. UH, IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING SET, SET OF INTERVIEWS. AND WE TALKED WITH A LOT OF STAFF. WE TOURED THE CITY. WE MET WITH OUR ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE FIRST TIME. THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE WAS PUT TOGETHER BY THE STAFF. IT'S ABOUT A DOZEN PEOPLE. THEY APPLIED TO BE ON THAT COMMITTEE. AND THEY'VE ACTUALLY BEEN VERY HELPFUL, UH, THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE PROJECT IN GIVING US JUST SERVING AS A SOUNDING BOARD FOR THE IDEAS THAT WE'VE HAD, UH, TO, TO, TO PRESENT TO THEM. UH, WE MET WITH THEM AGAIN TODAY. THEY'VE STUCK WITH US NOW FOR ABOUT THE FIVE PLUS YEARS. SO IT'S GREAT THAT TO HAVE THAT CONTINUITY ON THAT COMMITTEE. BUT THAT WAS THE KICKOFF. 2018, WE SUMMARIZED OUR FEEDBACK THAT WE HEARD AND OUR ANALYSIS OF YOUR ORDINANCES IN THE ASSESSMENT REPORT. UH, AND WE PUT THAT ONLINE. WE CAME OUT, WE DID MEETINGS ON THE ASSESSMENT REPORT. THAT WAS THE BIG IDEAS, THE BIG IDEAS FOR HOW WE COULD IMPROVE THE ADDISON ORDINANCES. THAT WAS HOW WE SET THE STAGE FOR THE DRAFTING. UH, AND THE DRAFTING FOLLOWED IN, IN, IN TASK THREE, THE, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND WE'VE PREPARED THAT IN INSTALLMENTS AND WE'VE ROLLED THEM OUT INCREMENTALLY. UM, FIRST OF ALL, UH, A COUPLE YEARS AGO NOW, WE ROLLED OUT THE NEW ZONE DISTRICTS AND THE LAND USES GOT FEEDBACK ON THAT. UH, THEN WE CAME BACK WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AND DESIGN STANDARDS, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT AFFECT THE QUALITY OF DEVELOPMENT, LIKE PARKING REQUIREMENTS OR, OR LANDSCAPING, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, NOW WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF, WE'RE KIND OF BETWEEN PART THREE AND PART FOUR. AND SO WE ACTUALLY SWITCHED THE ORDER OF THOSE. AND BACK IN NOVEMBER WE PRESENTED THE SIGNS PIECE, THE, THE REWRITE OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE AND THE WIRELESS COMMUNICATIONS FACILITIES. WE PRESENTED THOSE TO THE COMMITTEE FOR THE FIRST TIME. UH, AND THEN NOW WE'RE COMING BACK TO YOU ALL. WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU ALL THE PRESENTATION ON SIGNS IN WCF. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE PRESENTING TO YOU THE FIRST PART OF ADMINISTRATION OF PROCEDURES. AND WE, WE FLIPPED THOSE JUST BECAUSE THERE WAS, IT WAS MORE HEAVY EDITING AND, AND MORE TO DO ON THE PROCEDURES, AND IT WAS EASIER TO GET THE SIGNS DONE FIRST, BUT, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. AND SO WHEN YOU SEE THE TITLE OF THIS PRESENTATION TONIGHT, AND YOU LOOK AT THE, THE KIND OF RANDOM COLLECTION OF TOPICS, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF HOW THAT CAME ABOUT. IT'S, IT'S JUST, WE'RE WE'RE FILLING IN THE GAPS OF THE THINGS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DONE SO FAR. WE ARE METHODICALLY COLLECTING COMMENTS ON ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT INSTALLMENTS. WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS ALL ALONG, AND WE'RE GONNA BE TELLING YOU ABOUT HOW YOU CAN PRESENT YOUR, UH, PUT YOUR COMMENTS INTO A PDF FORM ONLINE, UH, WITH A TOOL CALLED CONVEO. WE'RE GONNA TAKE ALL THOSE COMMENTS. WE'RE GONNA PRES PREPARE A CONSOLIDATED DRAFT OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT THAT REFLECTS ALL THAT EDITS THAT WE'VE HEARD. AND YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT LATER THIS SPRING, MAYBE EARLY SUMMER. UM, WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER ROUND OF MEETINGS ON THAT TO GET TO AN ADOPTION DRAFT. THE GOAL HERE IS ADOPTION BY THE END OF THE YEAR. THE GOAL IS TO GET TO A NEW UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, UH, UH, FOR ADDISON BY THE END OF THE YEAR. THAT'S GONNA BE OBVIOUSLY A, A, A BIG, UH, PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, TO REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT THE PROJECT AND THE GOALS AND, AND WHAT THE NEW CHANGES ARE. BUT THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF, UH, MEETINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ADOPTION PROCESS. UH, A LOT OF BITES AT THE APPLE STILT AND OPPORTUNITIES TO REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT, UH, THE PURPOSES OF THE PROJECT AND WHAT'S HERE. BUT WITH THAT, THE, THE BALANCE OF THIS MEETING REALLY IS GOING TO BE TO WALK YOU THROUGH THAT SUBSTANTIVE MATERIAL. BEFORE I DO THAT, I JUST WANTED TO PAUSE AND SEE IF ANYONE HAD ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS OR THE OVERALL PROJECT GOALS. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WHO'S ON THIS ADVISORY COMMITTEE? IS IT CITIZENS? IT'S ALL CITIZENS. AND WE CAN GET YOU THAT LIST. UM, SO IT, IT IS CITIZENS PLUS ADDISON, UH, BUSINESS COMMUNITY MEMBERS. ALRIGHT, I'LL KEEP GOING. UM, AND THIS IS JUST THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT. SO GABBY IS GONNA START US OFF, UH, WITH THE WCF AND SCIENCE. SO SHE GETS THE FUN STUFF. UH, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA PAUSE AFTER EACH OF THOSE AND SEE IF Y'ALL HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THOSE THINGS. SIGNS IN PARTICULAR, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT. UH, THEN WE'RE GONNA JUMP INTO THESE, THE FINAL FOUR BULLETS THERE, GENERAL PROVISIONS, ET CETERA. THAT'S ALL THE PROCEDURAL STUFF, AND I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH THAT. UM, IT'S A LOT OF STUFF. SO LET'S GET GOING. UH, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO, I, I, I KNOW YOU, IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF MATERIAL TO WALK THROUGH IN ONE MEETING, SO WE'LL TRY TO MOVE QUICKLY. BUT IF WE, IF WE MOVE TOO QUICKLY, PLEASE JUST LET US KNOW AND, AND RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS. AND WITH THAT, UH, ACTUALLY I'VE GOT ONE MORE SLIDE. UM, THIS IS THE NEW ORGANIZATION OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. UH, THESE ARE THE ARTICLES, [00:10:01] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 OF THE NEW, UH, ORGANIZATION. IT'S, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT CONSOLIDATION AND RESTRUCTURING OF YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCES. THE ONES IN BLUE ARE THE ONES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT. SO GABBY'S GONNA REALLY BE HITTING THE, A COMPONENT OF ARTICLE FOUR AND, AND, AND THE SCIENCE PIECE IN FIVE. AND THEN I'LL COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT ONE AND TWO. UM, THE QUOTE ON THE RIGHT IS A QUOTE FROM THE ASSESSMENT REPORT, JUST TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF, OF CLEARLY DEFINED PROCEDURES. BUT WE'LL GET MORE INTO THAT LATER IN THE MEETING. I, I WILL GIVE IT TO GABBY QUESTION I, I PROMISE I'LL TRY TO CONTROL IT TONIGHT, BUT BRING ME UP TO SPEED. I CAN'T REMEMBER, HAVE WE ALREADY DONE THE ZONING DISTRICT SECTION? WE DID, BUT UM, WE DID THAT AS VERY FIRST PART. AND BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST PART, WE ARE PLANNING TO REVISIT IT WITH YOU. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT. 'CAUSE WE'VE HAD AN ISSUE COME UP THAT I KNOW WE NEED TO ADDRESS. YES. AND, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE, THE REVISED CALENDAR AT THE END, BUT BASICALLY WE'RE GONNA COME BACK, WE'RE GONNA START PROCEDURES TONIGHT. MAYBE FINISH AT THE NEXT MEETING IF WE NEED TO. BUT THE NEXT MEETING WITH Y'ALL IS PROBABLY GONNA TALK ABOUT DISTRICTS AND USES AND REVISIONS TO THAT BEFORE WE GET TO THE CONSOLIDATED DRAFT. THAT WILL BE APRIL 30TH. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY. THE FUN STUFF. UM, SO WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES. UM, SO WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES IS A TERM THAT IS A COLLECTIVE TERM FOR ALL OF THE DIFFERENT ANTENNA EQUIPMENT, UM, SO ON AND SO FORTH THAT ESTABLISH THE COMMUNICATION NETWORK. UM, SO YOUR CELL PHONES, UM, CAN FUNCTION BECAUSE OF WIRELESS. AND THIS IS OFTEN, UM, KIND OF AN OVERLOOKED AND MISSED PART OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT. BUT THEY ARE THERE. THAT IS AGAIN, HOW YOU GET CELL COVERAGE. SO, UM, CURRENTLY THE CODE DOESN'T HAVE, UM, SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR THEM, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ADDED THEM. UM, THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF FEDERAL, UM, OVERSIGHT AND, UM, REGULATIONS THAT AFFECT WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT REGULATE ABOUT WIRELESS. SO WE MADE SURE THAT THE CODE ALIGNS WITH THOSE. UM, SO WIRELESS CAN RANGE FROM ROOF-MOUNTED FACILITIES, UM, THAT ARE SCREENED. SOMETIMES THEY ARE NOT SCREENED. UM, THERE ARE WALL-MOUNTED FACILITIES, SO ONES THAT ARE JUST DIRECTLY MOUNTED ON THE WALLS OF BUILDINGS, MAYBE SOMETIMES THERE IS A SCREEN PUT AROUND THEM. MAYBE SOMETIMES THAT SCREEN ACTUALLY MATCHES, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T. UM, AND THEN THE GROUND MOUNTED FACILITIES, SO THIS INCLUDES JUST YOUR STANDARD SORT OF TOWER OR POLE. UM, AND I'M SURE YOU ALL HAVE THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT THE, UM, POLES, THE ANTENNAS THAT ARE SO WELL HIDDEN IN THAT SUPER REAL TREE. UM, BUT THE, IT ALSO INCLUDES JUST OTHER STRUCTURES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, BUILT IN ORDER TO SCREEN OR SORT OF CAMOUFLAGE THE, UM, ANTENNA. AND THEN THERE ARE DIFFERENT SPECIFIC TYPE OF ANTENNA, AND THEY'RE CALLED SMALL CELL FACILITIES. AND AGAIN, THAT IS A TERM FOR THIS SPECIFIC TYPE OF ANTENNA. AND SMALL CELLS HAVE COME UP IN THE PAST, UM, FEW YEARS, UM, BECAUSE OF THE, UM, 5G NETWORK BEING BUILT OUT. UM, SO FOR REFERENCE 5G, UM, FUNCTIONS, UM, MORE INTENSELY, BUT WITH, UM, A SMALLER RANGE. AND THAT'S WHY, UM, THEY HAVE HAD TO BUILD THIS NETWORK OF ANTENNAS AND POLES CLOSER TO THE RIGHT OF WAY AND CLOSER TOGETHER, UM, SO THAT THE TECHNOLOGY CAN WORK BETTER. UM, BUT BECAUSE THESE ARE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY CHANGES TO THE TOWN'S CURRENT REGULATION. UM, ALL OF OUR REGULATIONS ARE RELATED TO ANTENNA ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. UM, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, THAT IS ANOTHER TYPE OF WIRELESS THAT EXISTS. SO THE ORGANIZATION OF THIS SECTION IS PRETTY SIMPLE. UM, THE PURPOSE, WHAT IT APPLIES TO THE GENERAL PROVISIONS, UM, ELIGIBLE FACILITIES REQUESTS, WHICH I WILL DESCRIBE IN A SECOND. AND THEN THE STANDARDS FOR SPECIFIC FACILITY TYPES. SO DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR ROOF MOUNTED VERSUS WALL MOUNTED. UM, SO AGAIN, THIS IS A MOSTLY NEW SECTION FOR WIRELESS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. UM, THERE'S GENERALLY FEW STANDARDS CURRENTLY, AND WE'RE CARRYING FORWARD THE SMALL CELL FACILITY FOR THE RIGHT OF WAY. UM, WE'VE CLARIFIED THE DIFFERENT PROCESSES THAT ARE NECESSARY BASED ON THE TYPE OF ANTENNA YOU ARE, UM, REQUESTING. UM, AND THEN AGAIN, MAKING SURE IT COMPLIES WITH FEDERAL AND STATE LAW. SO STARTING WITH THE ELIGIBLE FACILITIES REQUEST. SO AGAIN, THIS IS THE FCC IS VERY INVOLVED, UM, IN, UM, REGULATING, UH, WHAT LOCAL COMMUNITIES CAN AND CANNOT DO RELATED TO THE COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK. SO AN [00:15:01] ELIGIBLE FACILITY'S REQUEST IS ESSENTIALLY IF THERE IS ALREADY ANTENNA ON A BUILDING, UM, THERE'S A 60 DAY REVIEW PERIOD, UM, THAT THE TOWN IS LIMITED TO. IT'S ANOTHER FORM OF SHOCK CLOCK, UM, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE ALL ARE FAMILIAR WITH BECAUSE OF SUBDIVISIONS, BUT, SO IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IF AT AND T HAS AN ANTENNA ON A BUILDING AND VERIZON WANTS TO COME PUT A, THEIR ONE OF THEIR INTENT ON THAT BUILDING, THEY WOULD FALL UNDER AN ELIGIBLE FACILITIES REQUEST BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY EQUIPMENT THERE, CLEARLY THERE'S ALREADY, UM, UM, IT'S AN ELIGIBLE SUPPORT STRUCTURE IS WHAT THAT IS CALLED. UM, BUT THERE'S STILL LIMITS ON IT NEEDS TO COMPLY WITH IF THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC SCREENING STANDARDS, UM, WITH IT, THEY WILL STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THAT. UM, BUT IT IS JUST A MORE LIMITED SCOPE OF REVIEW. UM, AND SO THIS CLARIFIES WHAT TYPE OF PERMIT IS REQUIRED BASED ON THE TYPE OF, UM, UH, WIRELESS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES. SO, UM, DEPENDING ON WHICH DISTRICT YOU'RE IN, YOU MIGHT BE LOOKING AT, UM, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT VERSUS A BUILDING PERMIT. UM, SO IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF WCF YOU ARE DOING, IT REQUIRES A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UM, VERSUS BUILDING AND ROOF MOUNTED, UM, CAN BE DONE THROUGH JUST A BUILDING PERMIT. UM, FOR THE MIXED USE AND NON-RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, THERE ARE MAXIMUM HEIGHT STANDARDS, AGAIN, BASED ON THE TYPE OF WCF AND THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT, UM, IT IS PLACED IN. UM, SO THE BUILDING MOUNTED ARE OBVIOUSLY LIMITED TO, UM, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT THAT THE BUILDING CAN BE. UM, ROOF MOUNTED FACILITIES CAN GO UP TO 10 FEET, UM, ABOVE THE EXISTING ROOF LINE. AND THEN THOSE GROUND MOUNTED FACILITIES HAVE THEIR OWN SEPARATE, UM, HEIGHT STANDARDS. AND THEN THERE ARE GENERAL STANDARDS THAT ARE APPLICABLE TO ALL WCFS. UM, SO CAMOUFLAGE AND SCREENING, AGAIN, TRYING TO AVOID MAKING THEM, UM, READILY APPARENT, UM, REGULATIONS AROUND THE TRANSMISSION EQUIPMENT THAT GOES WITH THEM. UM, BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO THE ACTUAL ANTENNA, THERE'S A LOT OF SORT OF OTHER PIECES AND PARTS THAT NEED TO BE NEAR THE ANTENNA FOR IT TO FUNCTION. UM, AND THEN LIMITS ON LIGHTING AND NOISE. AND THEN THERE ARE A FEW ADDITIONAL STANDARDS FOR THOSE SPECIFIC TYPES. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE GROUND MOUNTED, THE POLE OR THE TOWER, UM, THOSE ARE SUBJECT TO MINIMUM SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, UM, SINCE THEY'RE NOT ON A BUILDING, UM, AS WELL AS SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS FROM EACH OTHER. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE, DURING THAT 60 DAY REVIEW PERIOD MM-HMM, , IS THAT A REVIEW PERIOD BY IS TOWN STAFF ONLY OR DOES FCC HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT? NO, THAT'S THE APPLICATION WITH STAFF. OKAY. JUST REVIEWING IT, THEY HAVE 60 DAYS. SO F-C-C-F-C-C DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE APPROVED CALL? NO, THEY JUST, UM, CREATED THE RULE AROUND IT, BUT THEY DON'T LOOK AT THE APPLICATIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU GABBY. I'VE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS IF WE COULD, CAN, UM, CAN YOU GO BACK TO, I THINK IT'S PAGE 11, MAYBE SLIDE 11, THIS ONE? UH, LITTLE, I'M SORRY, FURTHER BACK MAYBE MAYBE FIVE. IT'S, IT'S SHOWING THE SMALL CELL FACILITIES IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THAT IMAGE. OH YEAH. THIS ONE EIGHT RIGHT AWAY, THAT IMAGE. YEAH, THAT'S FINE. RIGHT, RIGHT THERE. YEP. UM, SO WE'VE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. UM, AND THEY MAY BE FOR, FOR KEN OR OTHERS, BUT WHO, WHO OWNS THOSE POLES IN THE RIGHT OF WAY? IT BE THE UTILITY? IT, IT WOULD BE THE UTIL. OKAY. AND DO WE KNOW, UM, UM, IF, IF MULTIPLE, UH, SMALL CELLS FROM VARIOUS CARRIERS CAN FIT IN ONE OF ONE OF THESE POLES? IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE WORKED ON A LOT IN MY CAREER, UH, GABBY OR MATT, HAVE YOU? UH, YEAH, I, I WOULD SAY THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE, I'D ONLY, I'VE ONLY SEEN ONE CARRIER HAVE ONE POLE, BUT THOSE WERE KIND OF THE, THE STANDALONE POLES. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF CO-LOCATING ON, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THE STREETLIGHTS, BUT TYPICALLY WHAT I SAW IN MY EXPERIENCE WAS JUST ONE CARRIER. OKAY. AND REALLY WHERE, REALLY WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS, UH, UH, ME PERSONALLY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF UNIFORMITY, UM, WHERE WE DON'T [00:20:01] HAVE 25 DIFFERENT LOOKING POLES IN ONE DISTRICT. AND SO IS THAT, IS THAT EVEN A POSSIBILITY THAT WE COULD HAVE A, LIKE A UNIFORM, UH, I KNOW IN ADDISON CIRCLE WE'VE GOT A LOT OF BLACK, LIKE GLOSS BLACK UTILITIES AND MAYBE HAVE SOMETHING GLOSS BLACK AND FAR RIGHT? BUT IN ON BELTLINE WHERE WE'VE GOT SILVER LIGHT POLES, WE MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, JUST SOMETHING THAT MATCHES UP WITH OUR, OUR RIGHT OF WAY TALL, 18 FEET, WHAT HAVE YOU, OTHER POLES. IS THAT, IS THAT SOMETHING REALISTIC THAT WE COULD, THAT WE COULD HAVE? I I THINK IT'S, WE CAN HAVE GUIDELINES LIKE THAT, AND I BELIEVE OUR CODE ACTUALLY HAS SOME, SO THIS WAS, UM, UH, SOME LEGISLATION THAT CAUSED MUNICIPALITIES TO REACT TO, UH, IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO NOW. UM, THAT AND THE TOWN ACTUALLY, UH, DEVELOPED A PRETTY DETAILED REGULATION THAT ADDRESSES, UH, A WHOLE RANGE OF TOPICS RELATED TO THIS TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, UH, AND I BELIEVE IT DOES HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES WITHIN THOSE, THAT CODE, BUT IT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE EVEN HAD TO USE IN MY TIME HERE IN ADDISON. SO IT'S NOT ONE, UH, THAT, UH, IS TOP OF MIND FOR ME, UH, RIGHT NOW. OKAY. THERE WAS THREE OF US THAT WERE PART OF THAT GROUP YOU'RE REFERRING TO AND, UM, I CAN'T GO INTO ALL THE SPECIFICS. WE WERE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT, UM, TO ME THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE DON'T END UP WITH ALL THESE, I MEAN, LOTS OF DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT LOOKS AND SOME, SOME, UH, WITH SOME LIKE THIS LIKE ALL OVER THE PLACE. SOME, SOME ON LIGHT POLES, SOME, SOME ON SOME OTHER CONFIGURATION. SO, UM, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF GUIDELINES THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS, THIS IS THE POLL WE WANNA SEE IN THIS PARTICULAR DISTRICT. AND IT'S DIFFERENT. UM, I'M SURE VITRUVIAN PARK IT, UH, MIGHT WANNA BE DIFFERENT THERE, UM, THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN THE CIRCLE IS WHAT WE HAVE ON BELTLINE. SO THAT I WOULD REALLY, UH, STRONGLY ENCOURAGE WE HAVE SPECIFICS LIKE THAT IF, IF WE CAN DO THAT, RIGHT. AND SO, UM, AS GABBY NOTED, THAT IS NOT BEING INFLUENCED BY THIS PROJECT, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUT ON OUR WORK PLAN CERTAINLY TO EXAMINE AND COME BACK TO COUNSEL ON. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEP. SO I, I HAVE A QUESTION ALSO, THE TYPE OF QUESTION THAT MARLON JUST ASKED AS FAR AS DETAIL ON THIS, ON THE UDC HERE. UM, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THIS MEETING, IS OFFERING THAT FEEDBACK NOW? OR ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT ON THE COMMENTS, UH, ON THE ONLINE TOOL? SO BOTH, UM, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS NOW THAT YOU'RE READY TO SHARE, PLEASE DO THAT. UH, IF YOU ALSO WANT TO MARK UP THE DOCUMENT AND WE'RE GONNA LEAVE IT OPEN AFTER THE MEETING AS WELL, UH, FOR YOU, UH, 'CAUSE THIS PRESENTATION MAY BRING UP SOME AND DISCUSSION MAY BRING UP SOME MORE THOUGHTS FOR YOU. SO WE WELCOME IT IN BOTH FORMATS. OKAY. SO I DO HAVE A QUESTION ON SLIDE 15. I, UH, I WATCHED THE UDC COMMITTEE, UH, MEETING BACK IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR, NOVEMBER 15TH OR WHATEVER DAY THAT WAS. AND I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT THEY HAD ON THOSE. THIS WAS SPECIFICALLY ON THE HEIGHTS OF SOME OF THE ANTENNA POSSIBILITIES. UH, THERE WAS SOME TALK ABOUT AROUND, UH, AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS, WHICH WE ALSO CALL HAM OPERATORS. UM, SO WHERE, WHERE DOES THAT FEEDBACK GET IN? WOULD THAT BE HERE OR IS THAT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AND THEN IT GOES TO A DIFFERENT PART OF THE PROCESS? SO THAT IS A WONDERFUL QUESTION. IT CAME UP IN OUR MEETING TODAY AS WELL. UM, SO I WOULD ASK OUR CONSULTANT TO, UH, DESCRIBE THEIR METHODOLOGY FOR COLLECTING THE FEEDBACK, COMMUNICATING IT BACK TO YOU AND SHOWING HOW WE'RE RESPONDING TO IT. SURE. SO WE HAVE BEEN USING, UM, THE PROGRAM CALLED CONVEO. AND REALLY WHAT THAT IS, IS, UM, UH, SOFTWARE WHERE YOU CAN, WE HAVE THE PDF AVAILABLE AND YOU CAN DROP YOUR COMMENTS IN, UM, AND YOU CAN SEE EVERYONE ELSE'S COMMENTS AS WELL AND REPLY TO THOSE AND INTERACT WITH THOSE. UM, SO WE'VE DONE THAT FOR ALL THREE OF THE MODULES. UM, SO THE ZONING DISTRICTS AND USES THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS AND THE, UM, ADMINISTRATION OF PROCEDURES AND THE SIGNS IN WIRELESS. AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS, UM, FOR THE CONSOLIDATED DRAFT, YOU'LL GET, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE A TRACKED VERSION OF THE CHANGES WE MADE FROM THOSE INITIAL DRAFTS THAT WE HAVE NOT, UM, DONE ANYTHING TO SINCE WE'VE PUBLISHED THEM. UM, AND IN THAT WAY YOU CAN SEE WHAT, HOW WE HAVE CHANGED IT BASED ON COMMENTS. DOES THAT COVER? OKAY. YES, IT DOES. SO SPECIFICALLY FOR THOSE QUESTIONS FROM THAT MEETING ABOUT THE, THE HEIGHT AND THE, UM, TYPES OF [00:25:01] ANTENNAS, THE OLD ANTENNAS ON LIKE THE HUGE DISHES THAT USED TO BE AROUND AND THE, AND THE DISHES. WHEN PEOPLE CHANGE THAT, THEIR DISH, SATELLITE DISH AND THEY LEAVE THE OTHER OTHER ONE UP THERE. WHAT'S, WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION? CAN, CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THAT FOR THE, THE GROUP HERE? IT WAS, IT WAS FAIRLY RELEVANT AND INTERESTING. IT WAS, IT WAS A, A GOOD CONVERSATION. I, I DON'T HAVE FULLY RECOLLECT IT FROM NOVEMBER, UH, BUT WE CAN, UH, CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP WITH THE GROUP ON THAT. IT WAS ABOUT SOME OF THE HEIGHTS, I MEAN, 60 FEET IS, IS IS WAY UP THERE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE HAVE SOME IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SOME M OPERATORS. UM, AND UH, THOSE ARE THE SORT OF THINGS THAT, THAT WAS BROUGHT OUT IN THAT MEETING. UM, AND ALSO JADE DID SEND US THE TOOL, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT TOOL? CON CONVEO. CONVEO, YEAH. THANK YOU FOR SENDING THAT OUT. SO WE'RE, WE'RE PREPARED FOR THE COMMENTS. THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION. SO THE EXAMPLE I COULD BRING UP THAT COUNCIL WOULD KNOW IF ENCORE OWNS THE POLES WHERE THE SMALL CELL TOWERS COULD BE APPLIED. IS THAT CORRECT? BECAUSE REMEMBER THIS INSTANCE WHERE THERE WAS THE GREENHILL SCHOOL POWER LINE IN THE NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD, SO, AND, AND THAT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT TOPIC AND, AND THAT IS, UH, A PENDING CONSIDERATION FOR YOU IN THE FUTURE THAT I I, I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO ADDRESS IN THIS MEETING. NO, NOT NOT TO GO THERE, BUT MEANING IN THAT INSTANCE, COULD THEY COME IN AND PUT A SMALL CELL TOWER ON THAT EXAMPLE OF THAT POLL? OR WOULD THAT BE TOWN STAFF WOULD'VE TO REVIEW THAT EXAMPLE? SO THERE'S, THAT WOULD BE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. SO THE, OUR SMALL CELL REGULATION ADDRESSES THE USE OF THOSE FACILITIES IN PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. OKAY. SO NOTHING, WE COULDN'T HAVE AN INSTANCE WHERE SUDDENLY ON BELTWAY EMINENT DOMAIN COMES IN, THEY'RE GONNA PUT A POWER LINE HALFWAY DOWN BELTWAY, WHERE THOSE NEW TOWN HOMES ARE AND THEN STARTED HEARING SMALL CELL TOWERS. AM I SAYING THAT CLEARLY OR SORT OF, I, I, I THINK I UNDERSTAND IT. SO IF A UTILITY PROVIDER INSTALLED OVERHEAD ELECTRIC UTILITIES, WHICH THEY COULDN'T DO IN ADDISON BASED ON OUR, OUR CODE, UH, SO IS THE CONCERN IF THEY CO-LOCATED SMALL CELL WITH ON AN, ON ANOTHER UTILITY, SORT OF, BUT MORE RHYME TO THE MORE, MORE RHYME TO THE REASON VERSUS IT JUST SUDDENLY APPEARS YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD, I SHOULDN'T SAY JUST SUDDENLY APPEARS IF THERE'S POWER LINES, EXAMPLE GOING DOWN BELTWAY TOWARDS THE A A C TOMORROW, THEY COULDN'T START WITHIN A 60 DAY PERIOD, START APPLYING SMALL CELL TOWERS TO THOSE POLES LEADING TO A, A C. SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH TOWN REGULATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SMALL CELL, UH, FACILITIES. IT WOULD BE ON THE EXISTING POLLS THOUGH. CORRECT. THEY WOULDN'T START SUDDENLY IMPLEMENTING. SO IF THE REGULATIONS ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE NEW POLLS THAT FOR THAT PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, THEN THEY COULD DO IT. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION ON, UM, LIKE HERE ON THIS SLIDE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEIGHT. UM, IF YOU LOOK ON THE PICTURE BACK WALL MOUNTED FACILITIES, SO WE'RE ADDRESSING HEIGHT. I MEAN, IS THERE A NEED OR DO WE ADDRESS LIKE HOW MANY, UH, FACILITIES THERE ARE, SAY, ON A BUILDING OR WITHIN A CERTAIN AREA? WE'VE ALL SEEN LOTS OF BUILDINGS THAT ARE COVERED WITH THEM AND I, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS ADDRESSED OR HOW SO, UM, A RESTRICTION ON THE NUMBER OF THEM IS NOT IN THE REGULATIONS. YOU COULD, UM, THE CAMOUFLAGE AND SCREENING STANDARDS IS, IS REALLY THE, THE MAIN WAY TO SORT OF ADDRESS AESTHETIC CONCERNS. AGAIN, THE FCC LIMITS, UM, THE AMOUNT OF LIMITATION YOU CAN PUT ON THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S SEEN AS, YOU KNOW, A PUBLIC SAFETY MATTER OR, OR JUST, YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATION. SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT AND WE, WE CAN'T, WE DON'T SAY YOU CAN ONLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, SIX PER WALL. UM, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD MAKE A DISCRETIONARY DECISION ABOUT WHAT THEY, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. UM, AND IF IT COULD, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COULD DEFEND IT AND IT IS REASONABLE, THEN YOU COULD POTENTIALLY LIMIT IT. BUT THAT IS ANOTHER CHALLENGING THING ABOUT ELIGIBLE FACILITY REQUESTS IS THAT IF THERE ALREADY ARE ANTENNA AND YOU WANT TO GO ADD MORE, THERE'S EVEN LESS THAT THE, UM, CITY CAN DO TO, [00:30:01] UM, SAY NO ESSENTIALLY. UM, SO THANK YOU. YEP. KEN ISN'T, DON'T WE HAVE A LIMITATION ON THE ONES IN THE RIGHT OF WAY? LIKE THE NUMBER I THOUGHT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT. LIKE WE CAN'T HAVE A HUNDRED OF THEM IN A HUNDRED FEET, RIGHT? I MEAN, ISN'T THERE SOME KIND OF RE DON'T WE HAVE SOME KIND OF RESTRICTIONS IN THERE? SO WE, WE HAVE A, A VERY DETAILED REGULATION THAT'S NOT THE SUBJECT OF WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE DEALING WITH TONIGHT. SO, OKAY. IT MAY BE A, IT MAY BE A BETTER DISCUSSION THAT WE COME BACK TO YOU ON AND, AND HAVE A REVIEW OF THAT. UM, 'CAUSE I HONESTLY, I HA I HAVEN'T HAD TO TOUCH THAT ORDINANCE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE IN TOWN, SO IT'S NOT SOME, AND SINCE IT'S NOT PART OF OUR, OUR, UH, PROGRAM TONIGHT, IT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING I'M, I I COULD HONESTLY SAY I'M REALLY PREPARED TO DISCUSS TONIGHT. OKAY. YOU CAN DO SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN THOSE, WHICH MIGHT BE WHAT YOU HAVE ARE, ARE YOU, YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN, YOU CAN ONLY DO THEM WITH, LIKE, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER SMALL CELL WITHIN 600 FEET OF THAT. IT'S LIKE CURB CUTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHERE WE, WHERE WE CAN KIND OF LIMIT. OKAY. RIGHT. OKAY. ARE WE READY TO MOVE TO THE SECOND FUN THING, WHICH IS SIGNS? OKAY. UM, SO BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS, WE JUST HAVE SOME BACKGROUND SLIDES, UM, JUST ABOUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNAGE, UM, THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED IN A SIGN CODE. UM, SO THERE ARE WALL SIGNS FOR BUSINESSES. UM, MONUMENT SIGNS TYPICALLY FOR SHOPPING CENTERS THAT HAVE MULTIPLE TENANTS, UM, BUT ALSO COULD JUST BE ONE TENANT. UM, AGAIN, DIFFERENT TYPES OF MONUMENT SIGNS. UM, IT ADDRESSES AIRPORT SIGNAGE AND THAT INCLUDES BOTH THE AIR SIDE, UM, WHICH WOULD BE SIGNAGE FACED TOWARDS, UM, THE RUNWAYS AND SUCH, OR KIND OF INTERNAL TO THE SITE. AND THEN LANDSIDE, SO ANY OF THE BUILDINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, FACE MORE OF THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, WE'LL DISCUSS A LITTLE ABOUT, UM, THE CITY'S APPROACH TO ALCOHOL RELATED SIGNS. UM, AND THEN THESE, THIS IS JUST SOME FUN STUFF, BUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE HOW DO YOU HANDLE THE FEATHER SIGNS? WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS FUNKY MANNEQUIN SIGN? UM, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE ADDRESSED IN THE SIGN CODE. UM, SO THIS IS THE ORGANIZATION, AGAIN, WE START WITH THAT PURPOSE AND AUTHORITY. UM, THE GENERAL PROCEDURES REQUIRED FOR SIGNS, HOW TO REMOVE SIGNS, UM, SIGNS THAT ARE ALLOWED WITHOUT A PERMIT, UM, BUT THAT MIGHT HAVE SOME SPECIFIC STILL LIMITATIONS. IT'S JUST THEY DON'T REQUIRE A SIGNED PERMIT. UM, THE ABILITY TO DO ALTERNATIVE SIGN DESIGNS, PROHIBITED SIGNS, TEMPORARY SIGNS, THE GENERAL SIGN REGULATIONS. UM, AND THEN THE REGULATIONS RELATED TO PERMANENT ONSITE SIGNS. UM, A NEW CONCEPT, UM, THE MASTER SIGN PLAN, WHICH I'LL TALK ABOUT. AND THEN, UM, REGULATIONS RELATED TO NON-CONFORMING SIGNS. UM, SO THIS CARRIES FORWARD THE CURRENT ADDISON REGULATIONS. UM, HOWEVER WE'VE REVISED IT TO BE MORE CONSISTENT, UM, MORE CLEAR, UM, AND USER FRIENDLY. UM, WE'VE ALSO EDITED AND REVISED FOR CONTENT NEUTRALITY. UM, THERE IS FEDERAL CASE LAW THAT LIMITS, UM, THE ABILITY TO REGULATE SIGNAGE BASED ON THE CONTENT OF THE SIGN. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE ALSO ADDED SOME MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR, UM, ALLOWED SIGN AMOUNTS, ESPECIALLY IN MORE INTENSE ZONING DISTRICTS. SO THE COMMERCIAL OR THE NON-RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. UM, WE'VE ALIGNED THE CONTENT WITH TOWN PRACTICE, UM, INTRODUCED THAT MASTER SIGN PLAN AND THEN ALSO STANDARDIZE THE METHODS OF MEASUREMENT FOR SIGNS. UM, SO STARTING WITH THOSE SIGNS ALLOWED, UM, WITHOUT A PERMIT. SO AGAIN, I WANNA REITERATE, THESE ARE ALLOWED WITHOUT A PERMIT, BUT MOST OF THESE HAVE SOME TYPE OF LIMITATION, WHETHER THAT BE SIZE NUMBER, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S NOT JUST A FREE FOR ALL. UM, SO THAT INCLUDES THOSE AIR SIDE AIRPORT SIGNS. UM, CONSTRUCTION BANNERS, UM, AS A DEVELOPMENT IS ACTIVELY BEING CONSTRUCTED FLAGS, UM, GOVERNMENT SIGNS, SO TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNS, UM, MENU BOARDS AND DRIVE THROUGH SIGNS, ANY SIGNS ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, UM, AND THEN NOT READABLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. SO THINGS LIKE THIS GUEST PARKING SIGN. UM, OBVIOUSLY THE TEXT IS SMALL SO IT IS NOT, UM, NEED A SIGN PERMIT, UM, SIGNS ON VEHICLES, UM, AND THEN SIGNS WITHIN WINDOWS. BUT AGAIN, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THESE WINDOW SIGNS, YOU DON'T NEED A PERMIT, BUT THERE'S A LIMIT ON HOW MUCH OF THE WINDOW [00:35:01] IT CAN TAKE UP, HOW MANY YOU CAN HAVE. UM, THAT ALSO IS IN THE SIGN CODE. UM, ANOTHER CHANGE WE'VE MADE IS CURRENTLY IN THE CODE THERE IS WHAT IS CALLED A MERITORIOUS EXCEPTION. UM, AND WE'VE REPLACED THAT WITH A MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD, UM, ALTERNATIVE SIGN DESIGN PROCESS THAT HAS CLEAR CRITERIA FOR HOW TO, UM, HOW THOSE CAN BE APPROVED. UM, AND WE'VE CHANGED THE AUTHORITY ON THAT DECISION FROM THE CITY COUNCIL TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. AND THE APPROVAL CRITERIA ARE LISTED THERE. SO IT'S NECESSARY DUE TO THE, THE UNIQUE FEATURES OF A SITE. UM, THERE'S NO SUBSTANTIAL ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND IT DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH THE INTENT OF THE SIGN REGULATIONS MOVING INTO PROHIBITED SIGNS. SO WE'VE CLARIFIED THAT THE NON COMMERCIAL COMPONENTS OF ELECTRONIC SIGNS ARE EXEMPT FROM THE OVERALL PROHIBITION ON DIGITAL SIGNS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, GAS STATIONS THAT HAVE TECHNICALLY ELECTRIC SIGNS TO SHOW THE PRICES THOSE ARE ALLOWED, UM, BECAUSE IT'S NON-COMMERCIAL. UM, AND THEN WE'VE ALSO ADDED MOBILE BILLBOARDS AND THOSE WIND-DRIVEN SIGNS TO THE PROHIBITED SIGN TYPES. UM, DIFFERENT TYPES OF TEMPORARY SIGNS. WE'VE UPDATED AND INTRODUCED NEW STANDARDS, UM, FOR ELECTION EVENT SIGNS, UM, SPECIAL EVENT AND SIDEWALK SIGNS, BANNER SIGNS, AND ALSO UNDEVELOPED REAL ESTATE SIGNS. SO SIGNS THAT ARE NOT THERE PERMANENTLY, UM, BUT ALSO NEED A LITTLE BIT OF REGULATION TO MAKE SURE, FOR EXAMPLE, SIDEWALK SIGNS THAT THEY DON'T, UM, PROHIBIT EFFECTIVE MOVEMENT THROUGH THE RIGHT OF WAY AND CAUSE ISSUES WITH PEDESTRIANS OR VEHICLES. UM, AND THIS IS KIND OF HARD TO READ, BUT, UM, THE PERMANENT ONSITE SIGNS, WE'VE TRIED TO GATHER AND SIMPLIFY THE INFORMATION INTO A TABLE TO MAKE THAT MORE USER FRIENDLY. AND SO THIS TABLE INCLUDES ALL OF THE DIFFERENT LIMITATIONS AND ALLOWANCES FOR ATTACHED SIGNS, UM, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING. SO WALL SIGNS OR SIGNS THAT PROJECT FROM THE BUILDING, UM, DETACHED POLE SIGNS, SO SIGNS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO A POLE VERSUS THE DETACHED MONUMENT SIGNS, WHICH THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE JUST ON THE GROUND. UM, AND THAT INCLUDES THE NUMBER ALLOWED, THE TOTAL SIGN AREA, HOW BIG THEY CAN BE. UM, SAME WITH DIMENSIONS, THE HEIGHT WHEN IT'S RELEVANT. UM, AND SAME WITH THE SETBACK, UM, REQUIREMENTS. AND SO RIGHT NOW IN THE SIGN CODE THERE ARE SOME PRETTY SPECIFIC MAXIMUM LETTER AND LOGO HEIGHT LIMITATIONS AND WE'VE MOVED AWAY FROM THAT TO ALLOW SOME MORE FLEXIBILITY AND DESIGN WHILE ALSO ENSURING THAT THERE'S STILL LIMITATIONS ON HOW MUCH SIGNAGE YOU CAN HAVE, HOW BIG IT CAN BE. UM, BUT JUST SORT OF OPENING UP THAT. AND THEN, UM, SIMILAR FLEXIBILITY. WE HAVE CLARIFIED THAT SITE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS. SO IF THERE IS TECHNICALLY A, A LITTLE SIGN THAT HAS ARROWS DIRECTING PEOPLE THROUGH A BIG PARKING LOT, UM, YOU CAN EXCEED THE NUMBER, UM, OF THOSE. UM, WE ALSO CLARIFIED THAT FROM MURALS, UM, THE ONLY, THEY REQUIRE A SIGNED PERMIT, BUT ONLY THAT PORTION OF A MURAL THAT SHOWS, UM, OR THAT IT'S RELATED TO THE BUSINESS. IT'S ADVERTISING WOULD COUNT TOWARDS SIGN AREA. SO IF JUST IN THAT PICTURE ALL OF THE, THE BOTTOM KIND OF BAND OF THE FLORAL WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARDS THEIR SIGN AREA, ONLY THE FAIR AND SQUARE PORTION WOULD COUNT. UM, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE'VE ADDED ADDITIONAL, UM, ALLOWANCES FOR LARGER BUILDINGS WITHIN THOSE MORE INTENSE ZONING DISTRICTS SO THEY CAN HAVE LARGER ATTACHED SIGNS, SO LARGER WALL SIGNS, UM, AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL PROJECTING OR CANOPY SIGNS. AND THEN WE'VE ALSO ADDED STANDARDS FOR THOSE POLE MOUNTED BANNERS THAT ARE KIND OF THROUGHOUT DIFFERENT AREAS OF TOWN. AND THEN THE NEXT UM, NEW PIECE OF THIS IS THE MASTER SIGN PLAN. AND SO WHAT THIS ALLOWS IS FOR LARGER CAMPUSES OR SHOPPING CENTERS, UM, TO DEVIATE FROM THE SIGN CODE, UM, BUT UM, STILL HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS PLACED ON THEIR, UM, PROPERTY. SO RIGHT NOW THAT IS ACHIEVED THROUGH WHAT ARE CALLED SPECIAL SIGN DISTRICTS. AND SO THIS IS INTENDED TO REPLACE THAT PROCESS AND SIMPLIFY IT A BIT. UM, AND SO THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS, UM, COMMERCIAL AND MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS [00:40:01] THAT CONTAIN MORE THAN ONE BUILDING IN THE MIXED USE COMMERCIAL OR PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS. UM, AND SO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN HAS TO, THERE ARE CERTAIN DETAILS THAT AN APPLICANT HAS TO SUBMIT, SO IT HAS TO HAVE AN ARCHITECTURAL THEME. THERE HAS TO BE COORDINATED DESIGN FEATURES, MATERIALS AND COLORS. SO STILL ENSURING THE HIGH QUALITY, BUT MAYBE THEY CAN ADJUST THE NUMBER OF SIGNS PER TENANT OR HOW MUCH TOTAL SIGN AREA THAT THE CAMPUS HAS TOTAL. UM, AND THAT THOSE WOULD BE APPROVED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. AND THEN IF AMENDMENTS NEED TO BE MADE TO THEM IN THE FUTURE, UM, MINOR CHANGES CAN BE MADE THROUGH THE DIRECTOR. BUT IF IT'S, UM, A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE, IT WOULD GO BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS AGAIN TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. UM, AND THEN THE FINAL, UM, OKAY. STOP, STOP THERE. OH YEAH. YEP. SO WHAT'S THE DETERMINATION OF WHAT'S GONNA COME TO PLANNING AND ZONING? THAT'S PROBABLY A CANNED QUESTION. LIKE WHAT, WHAT DO YOU CALL, I MEAN LIKE WHAT'S YOUR DEFINITION OF LARGE CAMPUS OR CENTER? I MEAN, I GET MIXED USE, BUT LIKE IS THERE A THRESHOLD OF SIZE OR TENANTS OR WHAT? UM, I, YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD JUST, I THINK AT THE MOMENT IT'S PRETTY GENERALLY DESCRIBED AS THAT MULTI-TENANT BUILDING IF I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY MORE SO IT'S REALLY MORE SO THE DEVIATION FROM THE STANDARD AS PART OF A OKAY. SO WE'RE NOT GONNA GET EVERYONE THAT COMES. IT'S ONLY FOR EXCEPTIONS. EXCEPTIONS. AND THEN THE MASTER SIGN PLAN, WHICH WILL BE, UH, ESSENTIALLY A, UH, A PD FOR SIGNS. OKAY. OKAY. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT, IT'S JUST, IT'S AN AVAILABLE OPTION IF YOU DO HAVE MULTIPLE TENANTS OR MULTIPLE BUILDINGS. OKAY. UH, FINAL SIGN RELATED, UM, ISSUE. UM, SO THE CURRENT PRACTICE OF THE TOWN FOR ALCOHOL RELATED SIGNS, UM, IS TO ADD A CONDITION TO SPECIAL USE PERMITS. AND THAT CONDITION IS, UM, ON THE SCREEN. UM, BUT THE, THE FEDERAL CASE LAW, WHICH IS THAT REED VERSUS GILBERT, UM, THAT WE MENTIONED EARLIER, DOES RESTRICT, UM, YOU FROM REGULATING A SIGN BASED ON ITS CONTENT. UM, SO THIS WOULD NEED TO BE A CHANGE IN TOWN PRACTICE, UM, IN ORDER TO ALIGN WITH THAT LAW. AND I THINK THAT, ARE YOU SAYING IT'S NO LONGER GONNA BE PUT IN AS SPECIAL LANGUAGE? LIKE I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS WHOLE THING. A BAR IS A BAR, I'M SORRY. SO STAFF WOULD NEED SERVE ALCOHOL. I MEAN, WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO AVOID? SO STAFF WOULD NEED DIRECTION, UH, FROM COUNCIL AND COMMISSION ON THAT. THAT'S THE, THE THE THING, THE UNIQUE THING ABOUT IT IS IT'S NOT, UH, SOMETHING THAT IS IN OUR ORDINANCE. IT'S A A DECADES LONG PRACTICE TO PUT IT IN THE INDIVIDUAL SEP ORDINANCES. RIGHT? BUT, BUT BASED ON THIS LAW THAT, OR THIS LEGISLATIVE, WHATEVER THAT CASE, WHATEVER THAT GOT PASSED, LIKE ARE WE CAUSING TROUBLES BY TRYING TO PUT THAT AS, AS A RESTRICTION THROUGH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? SO IT WOULD BE IN CONFLICT WITH THAT, UH, THAT CASE YES. INTENT BASED APPLICATION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY IN THE ORDINANCE ITSELF. YEAH. THE POINT IS, IS THAT WE'RE CREATING SOME POTENTIAL LIABILITY BY FORCING THAT INTO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. YES. JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME UNDERSTANDING. WE, WE, WE USED ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I WAS GONNA SAY, WE USED TO TELL 'EM WHAT COLOR WE COULD THINK OF, PAINT THEIR BUILDING TOO. SO I, I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T COVERED IN YOUR SPECIFIC STUFF THAT I JUST WOULD LIKE SOME CLARIFICATION ON. SO WITH REGARDS TO ELECTION SIGNS, THIS LANGUAGE IN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT DOCUMENT I'M IN THE, YOUR DRAFT STUFF AND IT WAS, UH, F RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. ITEM NUMBER TWO. IT SAYS TEMPORARY SIGNS DURING ELECTION ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THREE SIGN LIMIT SET FORTH AND SUB SEC WHATEVER. SO WHAT ARE THE RULES ABOUT ELECTION SIGNS AND DO WE HAVE ANY POLICIES OR IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN CONTROL TO THAT? SO WE ACTUALLY FAIRLY RECENTLY, UM, AMENDED OUR ORDINANCE ADDRESSING ELECTION SIGNS. SO THAT WAS BACK IN 20, EITHER EARLY 2021 OR LATE 2020, BASICALLY A COUPLE MONTHS BEFORE I STARTED HERE. UH, AND SOME, SOME MODIFICATIONS WERE MADE. UH, THERE'S STILL COMPONENTS OF THAT THAT ARE CHALLENGING, PRIMARILY RELATING TO THE, UM, ELECTION POLLING LOCATIONS. UH, BUT UM, AS FAR AS, UH, THERE'S REGULATIONS ADDRESSING SIGNS ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. UM, [00:45:01] SO IT ALLOWS THEM TO BE PLACED ON THE PROPERTY OR IN THE PARKWAY, UM, ADJACENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. THERE'S, UH, WITH THAT, THERE'S REGULATIONS ON THE DESIGN OF THE SIGN, UH, AS WELL AS THE NUMBER. THOSE ARE BOTH GOOD. SO LOCATION, DESIGN, SIZE, WE ALREADY HAVE THAT. YOU ARE, THOSE ARE GOOD CONTENT NEUTRAL REGULATIONS THAT ARE LESLIE OR JADE. WILL YOU SEND ME THE OUTLINE OF WHAT OUR RULES ARE? SO IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE, THE CODE THAT YOU HAVE, WE CARRIED FORWARD EVERYTHING THAT IT'S NOT IN WHAT WAS ON OUR SHARED DOCUMENT. LIKE I DON'T SEE ANY OF THAT IN WHAT I LOOKED AT. SO THERE, THERE'S ELECTION SIGN CONTENT IN THE SIGN ORDINANCE AS WELL AS THE DRAFT NEW SIGN ORDINANCE THAT THE CONSULTANTS HAVE PROVIDED. IT'S ON PAGE 18 OF THE PDF OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE AND IT'S THE ELECTION EVENT SIGNS. AND I DIDN'T NOTICE A COUNT IN HERE. AM I MISSING IT? WHICH IS ALL POSSIBLE. THE TOTAL NUMBER OF TEMPORARY SIGNS, UH, IS UNDER LOCATION. IF YOU GO TO NUMBER THREE, LOCATION YOUR REGULAR, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A THREE UNDER LOCATION. GO TO THREE B, TWO B, DOUBLE I, IT SAYS TWO ELECTION SIGNS PER CANDIDATE. I I CAN YOU LOOK AT WHAT I'M LOOKING AT, DAVID? SURE. ARE YOU ON PAGE 18? YEAH. TWO, TWO. IT'S NOT, OH, FOR CANADA IT'S UNDER TWO, NOT THREE. OKAY. I'M LIKE, I'M LOOKING FOR THREE. I'M LIKE, THE NUMBER SHALL NOT EXCEED THE NUMBER OF BALLOT ISSUES AND OFFICES ON THE BALLOT. NOT PULLING, THAT'S NOT ABOUT RESIDENTIAL HOME RESIDENTIAL SIGNAGE, WHICH IS WHAT I'M ASKING ABOUT. AM I MISSING IT? CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? SO I WAS ASKING, THAT'S REFERRING TO POLLING PLACES. IT'S SAYS I WAS ASKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL SIGNAGE ON, RIGHT. THIS IS, NO, I'M READING B ONE AT THE TOP OF PAGE 18. TOTAL NUMBER OF THE, SO THE, THESE ARE CONSIDERED A TYPE OF TEMPORARY SIGN, Y'ALL CALL THEM POLLING A POLITICAL SIGNS IN YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCE. AND THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE CHANGED TO ELECTION EVENT SIGNS. 'CAUSE WHAT WE CAN FOCUS ON IS TIME, PLACE, AND MANNER NOT CONTENT. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO TIE IT TO THE TIMING OF THE ELECTION. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED ELECTION EVENT SIGNS. AND, BUT THIS IS GENERALLY CARRYING FORWARD THE THRUST OF YOUR CURRENT RULES. SO UNDER DURATION IT'S FOR A PERIOD OF 60 DAYS PRIOR TO A STATE, LOCAL, OR NATIONAL ELECTION. SO MATT, MAY I STEP IN? DENISE, YOU'RE LOOKING WHAT, WHERE YOU'RE GONNA WANNA LOOK IS PAGE 18, THREE B. NUMBER ONE ON PROPERTIES WITH SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED OR DETACHED DWELLINGS, ELECTION EVENT SIGNS MAY BE PLACED IN ANY PORTION OF THE FRONT OR SIDE YARD THAT MAY INCLUDE THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. IF THE SIGN IS PLACED AT LEAST THREE FEET AWAY FROM THE EDGE OF THE STREET IN LOCATIONS WITH SIDEWALKS, SIGNS MUST BE LOCATED BEHIND THE SIDEWALKS AS AS TO NOT OBSTRUCT THE SIDEWALK. THE QUANTITY, THE CONTENT OF THIS ADDITIONAL, UH, THE NUMBER SHALL NOT EXCEED THE NUMBER OF BALLOT ISSUES AND OFFICES ON THE BALLOT OF ANY CITY STATE. SO YOU CAN HAVE 25 SIGNS IN YOUR YARD IF YOU HAVE THAT MANY. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THAT THAT LEGISLATION OR ARGUMENT, WHATEVER THAT CASE LAW UP ABOVE IS THAT PROHIBITS US FROM DOING ANYTHING BUT ALLOWING UNLIMITED WELL, WELL THE CASE THAT WE CITED IS DEALING WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S DEALING WITH CONTENT. BUT THE GENERAL BODY OF LAW AROUND THIS IS THAT YES, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T RESTRICT THAT SPEECH. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO, THAT'S ALL I, THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER. QUANTITY, THE REASON WE COULDN'T, WE COULDN'T REGULATE QUANTITY. YEAH, BECAUSE JUST THE NUMBER OF BALLOT ISSUES IS UNKNOWABLE. RIGHT. CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR ALMOST EVERY SIGN? I MEAN, I'VE DONE A LOT OF MERITORIOUS EXCEPTIONS, SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON SIGNS OVER THE YEARS. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF 'EM, OR MOST OF 'EM COME DOWN TO SIZE OF THE SIGN, RIGHT? AND THE ONES THAT ARE ALWAYS, UH, IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONES THAT WE ALWAYS GAVE EXCEPTIONS TO WERE THE ONES THAT SOMEBODY'S LOGO HAD SOMETHING THAT STUCK UP A, YOU KNOW, AN EXTRA EIGHT INCHES AND THEN WE'RE BLOCKING THIS THING OFF IN A, IN A PERFECT RECTANGLE TO COME UP WITH, WITH A SIZE. IS THERE A REASON WHY, BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL PROPOSING TO DO THAT, RIGHT? YOU'RE, YOU'RE SQUARING OFF THE, ON THE MEASUREMENTS IS THERE ISN'T THAT? RIGHT? SO WE'VE ACTUALLY, WE'VE ACTUALLY MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THE SIGN STANDARDS TO FOCUS MORE ON SIGN AREA AND TO GET OUT OF THE LETTER OR LOGO HEIGHT ISSUE. SO WE'RE CONCERNED MORE ABOUT THE SIGN AREA. SO IF YOU HAVE A PORTION OF THE SIGN THAT'S A LITTLE LARGER, BUT THE OVERALL SIGN AREA IS SIMILAR, THEN UH, IT'S THE, THE SIGN IS MEETING THE INTENT OF OUR REGULATIONS. SO, [00:50:01] UH, WE, IT WAS TO ADDRESS THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE. BUT SO YOU THAT, THAT WAS FOR, THAT WAS FOR INDIVIDUAL LETTER SIZES. THAT WAS ALWAYS A, THAT WAS ALWAYS AN ISSUE ON THOSE THINGS. BUT ALSO A LOT OF TIMES WE WOULD GIVE AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT, 'CAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, THEY SAY SUPERIMPOSE THIS ON THIS BUILDING, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND SO YOU GOT THIS THING AND THE GUY'S LOGO IS WELL WITHIN THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IF YOU ACTUALLY DIGITIZE THE THING, IF YOU ACTUALLY WENT AROUND THE SIGN, YOU COULD SAY, OKAY, IT'S 42 SQUARE, 41 AND A HALF SQUARE FEET. BUT IF YOU BLOCK IT OFF, IF HE HAS SOME ELEMENT THAT STICKS UP HIGHER AND YOU BLOCK IT OFF AND YOU'RE LIKE, WELL NOW IT'S 80 SQUARE FEET AND IT'S PROHIBITED. I WAS LIKE, WHY DON'T, WHY CAN'T WE DIGITIZE THE THING INSTEAD OF JUST, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT IT DOES. AND AND WHERE IT TYPICALLY CAME BECAME AN ISSUE FOR US IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WAS LESS THE AREA ISSUE. 'CAUSE MOST OF, MOST OF THE SIGNS AREN'T HAVING OBJECTS PROJECT PROJECTING OUT OUT OF THE, THE TYPICAL SIGN AREA. USUALLY IT'S A LARGER LOGO WITH SMALLER LETTERS. AND BECAUSE THE LETTER REQUIREMENT APPLIED TO LOGOS, THAT'S WHY THOSE LOGOS TYPICALLY, UH, CAME OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND ULTIMATELY RESULTED IN THE ISSUE OF HAVING AMORY'S EXCEPTION. IF YOU'LL RECALL, IT ACTUALLY IMPACTED THE TOWN, UH, WITH OUR LOGO, UH, ON, UH, THE, UH, UH, AIRPORT, UH, HEADQUARTERS. AND SO IT, IT, IT HIT US AS WELL. SO MOVING TO FOCUS ON AREA VERSUS LETTER HEIGHT, UH, WE FEEL LIKE IT WILL ADDRESS THAT ISSUE. AND YOU DON'T THINK THAT ANY OF LIKE, JUST BY BLOCKING IT OFF LIKE THAT, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE IT IS. YOU DON'T, YOU FEEL LIKE THAT'S GONNA CATCH MOST OF THEM? WE DO. WE, WE, WE THINK IT WILL ADDRESS MOST OF THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE. UH, LESLIE IS OUR SIGNED PERMIT REVIEWER AND IF SHE'D LIKE TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL CONTEXT AS WELL, WE'D WELCOME THAT. NO I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD. KEN COVERED IT. BUT GABBY, I THOUGHT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THERE, THERE, AND MAYBE THIS IS WHAT KEN IS TALKING ABOUT, THAT THERE WAS A CHANGE TO THE LOGO AND THE LETTER DIMENSIONS. YEAH. WE, THERE IS NO LONGER, UM, LIMITATIONS ON LETTER HEIGHT AND LOGO HEIGHT. THERE'S LIMITATIONS ON THE TOTAL AREA OF THE SIGN, JUST THE TOTAL AREA THAT IT CAN BE, BUT NOT SPECIFIC TO LOGO VERSUS LETTER. YEAH, NO, BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I GET TOM'S POINT VERY WELL, BECAUSE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, BUSINESSES AROUND TOWN THAT IF YOU DRIVE PAST IT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS BECAUSE OF WHAT, WHAT I CONSIDER NOT COMMON SENSE GUIDELINES AND, AND REQUIREMENTS FOR SIGNAGE. AND SO, SO I'D LIKE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AND IF THERE'S JUDGMENT THAT TO REQUIRE WHEN, WHEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN, UH, I'D LIKE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN GET THERE AND, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO INVEST IN THEIR, IN THEIR IN ADDISON AND, AND PUT THEIR BUSINESS HERE, I WANT PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY KNOW THAT THEY'RE THERE. YEAH. AND, AND IN MOST CASES THAT RESULTED IN THE APPLICATION OF THE LETTER HEIGHT REQUIREMENT TO THE LOGO. SO NOT HAVING A LETTER HEIGHT AND JUST FOCUSING ON THE OVERALL SIGN AREA, UH, WE FEEL THAT IT'S GONNA ADDRESS THAT IN MOST CASES. OKAY, GREAT. MORELAND DID JUMP, JUMP IN HERE REAL QUICK. SURE, GO AHEAD. YEAH, I WANNA, I WANNA JUMP IN ON THIS COMMENT 'CAUSE I, I, I AGREE WITH, WITH WHAT TOM'S THINKING, UM, RIGHT NOW, DO WE HA DOES IT SAY SQUARE FOOTAGE AS FAR AS THE CURRENT CODE? OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE DRAFT CODE WHERE WE'RE GOING? YES. COULD WE, COULD WE CHANGE THAT TO SOMETHING RATHER THAN SQUARE FOOTAGE? UM, WHERE IT'S NOT, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SQUARED TO YOUR POINT. YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I I DON'T KNOW LIKE, LIKE WE, LIKE WE RAN INTO LIKE TARGET WHEN THEY CAME IN, THEY JUST HAD A BIG CIRCLE UP THERE, RIGHT? WELL IF YOU TAKE A CIRCLE, BLOCK IT OFF, IT'S 20% BIGGER THAN WHAT THE CIRCLE IS OR WHATEVER IT IS. SO I DON'T KNOW IN THIS DAY AND AGE, I THINK YOU COULD JUST DIGITIZE IT AND I MIGHT SAY IT MIGHT SOLVE SOME FEW MORE. I MIGHT BE LESS OF THESE THINGS COMING TO, FOR AN EXCEPTION OR FOR A, WHATEVER YOU GUYS CALLING IT NOW, THERE MIGHT BE SIGN VARIANCE, IT MIGHT BE LESS OF 'EM IF YOU DID THAT BECAUSE IN THE END IT'S STILL, WHAT WE ALWAYS DID IS WE HAVE THOSE, YOU GUYS ARE REAL GOOD ABOUT IT. YOU SHOW US AN ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING, HERE'S WHAT, HERE'S WHAT THE SIGN IS THAT MEETS CODE, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THAT ELEVATION. AND WE'RE JUST USING OUR JUDGMENT. HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. AND A LOT OF THOSE TIMES THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT, THEY'RE LIKE, LIKE TO BRUCE'S POINT, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE, YOU CAN'T EVEN LOOK, CAN'T EVEN SEE ANYTHING. IT'S LIKE, WHAT IS THAT? AND THEN THEY BLOW. IT'S LIKE, YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE. 'CAUSE SIZE OF THE BUILDING, HOW FAR BACK IT IS AND ALL THAT STUFF. SO [00:55:01] . YEAH, AND, AND IT'S, IT'S REALLY DRIVEN BY THE, THE PROPORTION OF THE SIGN TO THE, THE BUILDING FACADE THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S ON. AND SO THE, THE REGULATION YOU'LL SEE IS IT'S 1.5 SQUARE FEET OF SIGN AREA FOR EACH LINEAR FOOT OF BUILDING FRONTAGE. SO GETTING OUT OF FIXATING ON, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 24 INCH LETTER OR A 24 INCH LOGO VERSUS THAT LOGO CAN BE MUCH LARGER. SO LONG AS IT FITS WITHIN THAT DEFINED SIGN AREA, IT'S GONNA TAKE CARE OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR ISSUES. UM, AT LEAST BASED ON WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IN MY TIME HERE. UM, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME PEOPLE, SOME SIGNS THAT MAY BE OUTSIDE OF THE BOX A LITTLE BIT AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THOSE, UH, UH, RELIEF PROCEDURES. SO WE THINK THIS WILL ADDRESS IT. UM, BUT CERTAINLY WE, IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC METHODOLOGY THAT THE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL WOULD LIKE US TO EXPLORE FURTHER, WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. THE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE YOU GAVE, WHAT DID YOU SAY EARLIER? UH, RATHER THAN SQUARE FOOTAGE, YOU, YOU MADE A COMMENT OF SOMETHING ELSE. WELL, IT'S A SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGN ITSELF, NOT THE, NOT A SQUARED OFF OF A, UH, SPACE THAT THEY'RE MEASURING. SO TOM TOM'S SAYING THEY'RE BOTH THE SQUARE FOOTAGES AND, AND THE ACTUAL, UM, THE ACTUAL AREA THAT THAT SIGN IS TAKING UP, NOT THE AREA AROUND IT. LIKE THE CIRCLE THAT'S SQUARED OFF IN TOM'S CASE, THAT'S HOW THEY'RE MEASURING IT. NOW THAT'S HOW WE'RE GONNA BE MEASURED IS IS A RECTANGLE OR SQUARE. IT'S A 90 DEGREE. YEAH. RIGHT. WHAT WHAT I THINK YOU'RE PROPOSING AND WHAT I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPOKE ABOUT ALSO AGREED WITH YOU IS WE CHANGED THAT FROM MAYBE THE WORDING SQUARE TO, TO SOME OTHER WORD THAT WOULD ENCAPSULATE IT'S STILL THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT IT'S JUST HOW YOU MEASURE IT INSTEAD OF, INSTEAD OF BLOCKING IT OFF, YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE JUST GONNA DIGITIZE IT AND SAY, OKAY, THIS IS 41 POINT. YOU MEAN HOW, HOW WE WORD THAT? I DON'T KNOW, BUT I AGREE WITH YOUR THOUGHT. WE CAN DO THAT. 'CAUSE YOU SPECIFICALLY NOW REQUIRE THE USE OF HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL LINES TO MAKE THAT MEASUREMENT, WHICH IS GONNA PRECLUDE, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT HARD FOR ANY UNUSUAL SHAPES, EVEN A CIRCLE. UH, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE LARGER THAN THE SIGN, YOU'RE GONNA GET THE CORNERS OUTSIDE THE CIRCLE. SO WE CAN CHANGE THAT TO BE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF A, UM, AREA UNIQUE SHAPE SPECIFIC MEASURE OR AREA. IF YOU JUST, YEAH, YOU JUST TAKE OUT THE VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL LINE, ME, YOU KNOW, TECH, UH, TERMINOLOGY, THEN YOU CAN LEAVE IT AS SQUARE FOOTAGE AND NONE OF THAT CHANGES. THE, THE ONE THING I WOULD OFFER IS WHEN YOU APPLY IT THAT WAY IN A, IN A COMMUNITY THAT'S APPLIED A, A MUCH MORE STRINGENT STANDARD FOR 30, 40 YEARS, YOU CAN GET SOME STARK CONTRAST PRETTY QUICKLY. SO JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AS YOU MAKE MAJOR TRANSITIONS IN YOUR, YOUR SIGN REGULATION METHODOLOGY. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT WOULD BE MAJOR KEN? IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE, YOU MAY HAVE HAVE TO TWEAK ANOTHER PART OF THE REGULATION TO, TO ENSURE THAT YOU'RE NOT GIVING SOMEONE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD A, A MUCH LARGER SIGN THAN SAY WHAT ALL THE OTHER EXISTING SIGNS LOOK LIKE IN A MULTI-TENANT CENTER. SO IF YOU HAVE ONE VERY LARGE SIGN, SAY IN UH, ADDISON WALK, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS SCALED A DIFFERENT WAY. SURE IT MAY CHANGE OVER TIME, BUT IT COULD LOOK A LITTLE ODD, UH, FOR A WHILE. WELL, THAT COULD BE AN ARGUMENT TO NOT CHANGE THE AUTHORITY FROM THE CITY COUNCIL TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. BUT THIS IS THIS, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS STAFF'S AUTHORITY. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. OKAY. SO IS THERE A WAY TO DO A IF, OR YOU HIT THIS ONE REQUIREMENT FIRST AND THEN YOU DEFAULT TO A SECOND? I MEAN, IS THERE SOME KIND OF WAY TO INCORPORATE BOTH OF 'EM VERSUS JUST A STRICT CARD RULE OF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? YOU, YOU COULD CALIBRATE THE METHODOLOGY THAT, THAT Y'ALL ARE SUGGESTING. UH, YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO TWEAK OTHER COMPONENTS. SO SAY IF YOU DID THAT, MAYBE YOU DROP THE, THE MAXIMUM AREA A LITTLE BIT, UH, TO DO THAT. 'CAUSE THE HAVING THE STARK CONTRAST IN HOW WE'VE DONE IT OVER TIME VERSUS THAT IT MAY HAVE SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. SO IT'S SOMETHING WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO DO SOME PILOT TESTING ON TO REALLY SEE WHAT THE MAXIMUM IMPACT OF THAT IS. IT MAY, IT MAY BE PRETTY MINOR, BUT IT COULD ALLOW FOR SOME, SOME ODDLY SIZED SIGNS, UH, IN, UH, IN AN AREA. AND, AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IS, UH, ONE, THE ABILITY TO DO SOMETHING UNIQUE AND CREATIVE AND ATTRACTIVE, BUT ALSO TO BALANCE THAT AGAINST, UH, SOME COMPATIBILITY, UH, WITHIN, UH, UH, PLACES AND [01:00:01] CORRIDORS. YOU HAVE A, SOMEBODY PROBABLY HAS A LIST OF ALL THE VARIANCES THAT WE, THAT COUNCIL HAS SEEN OVER THE LAST PICK THREE YEARS, SAY. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY IT'S BEEN, BUT, AND GO, COULD YOU GO BACK TO THOSE AND JUST SAY, OKAY, IF YOU APPLIED IT, LIKE HOW MANY OF THOSE WOULD THIS HAVE? WOULD THIS, THIS CHANGE AFFECT? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT DOES, YES. AND THEN MAYBE IT, MAYBE YOU GO, OKAY, IT'S ONLY ONE AND SO MAYBE IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A, YOU KNOW, I DUNNO. YEAH, I THINK IT JUST ANECDOTALLY, I THINK MOST OF OUR CHALLENGES OVER, AT LEAST MY TENURE HERE HAS BEEN JUST ON THE LOGO HEIGHT. AND I THINK WE'LL GET OUTTA THAT WITH THIS CHANGE. UM, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN DIG INTO THAT FURTHER AND, AND ALSO PROVIDE SOME, SOME RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE MEL METHODOLOGY, UH, THAT YOU SUGGESTED WHEN WE COME BACK TO YOU WITH THIS. WELL, AND IS THERE ANY, INSTEAD OF EVERYTHING HAVING TO COME BACK TO EITHER PLANNING AND ZONING OR CITY COUNCIL, ARE YOU BEING GIVEN ANY A ALLOW OF IF IT'S WITHIN A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT IT'S YOUR JUDGMENT AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME FULLY THROUGH. THERE'S, THERE'S COMPONENTS OF THAT THROUGHOUT THE CODE. UH, BUT WITH SIGNS WE'RE, WE'RE KEEPING MORE IN THE SPIRIT OF THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, UH, WITH THE, UH, EXCEPTIONS AND, AND MASTER SIGN PLANS GOING, UH, THROUGH TO PNZ, WE DID CHANGE THAT FROM PNZ OR FROM CITY COUNCIL TO PNZ BECAUSE WE, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE DUTY FOR PNZ AND, AND SOMETHING THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION COULD DRILL DOWN DEEPER ON. GIVEN THAT CITY COUNCIL HAS A, A BROAD WORKLOAD, UH, WE DEFINITELY WANT YOUR FEEDBACK ON THAT, UH, CONSIDERATION. SO THAT WAS, UH, A PART OF OUR THINKING THERE. I'M JUST GOING BACK TO REMEMBERING, LIKE GIVING YOU A SAMPLE OF, NOT IN SPECIFIC TO SIGNAGE, BUT REMEMBER WE HAD ONE THAT HAD TO COME BACK THROUGH CITY COUNCIL FOR, OR THROUGH, EXCUSE ME, P AND Z FOR SOME SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WAS SUCH MM-HMM. . THAT'S WHERE I'M GETTING AT, IS TO AVOID THOSE KIND OF SITUATIONS. RIGHT. AND, AND THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT HERE AS WELL. SO COMMENT OR QUESTION IN, IN THE CONVERSATIONS, COME UP WITH A FEW IN THE ROOM. SO, BACK IN THE COUNCIL MEETING WHEN WE DID THE MERITORIOUS FROST BANK SIGNAGE, THAT WAS IN JANUARY, I THINK, OR BEGINNING OF FEBRUARY. SO I WAS RECENTLY IN FRONT OF THAT FROST BANK AND SAW THEIR SIGNAGE ON THE BUILDING, WHICH IS PRETTY CLEAR, PRETTY EVIDENT, NOT GONNA BE BLOCKED BY FOLIAGE, AND YET WE'RE STILL PUTTING A POLE SIGN IN, WHICH LED TO MY QUESTION I'D ASKED IF CHICK-FIL-A MOVES IN ACROSS THE STREET, WILL THEY BE GRANTED A SIGN? IF TARGET WANTED TO PUT A NORTHBOUND FACING SIGN, WOULD THEY BE GRANTED EINSTEIN BAGEL AND ON AND ON AND ON? WOULD WE HAVE A STREET FILLED WITH POLE SIGNS? EVEN IF THE SIGNAGE ON THE BUILDING IS PLENTY CLEAR AND WITHIN CODE? WELL, ULTIMATELY, IF THEY'RE REQUESTING AN EXCEPTION FROM THE COUNCIL, UH, YOU HAVE, IT'S A DISCRETIONARY CONSIDERATION. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU SET A PRECEDENT WITH ONE PROPERTY DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO APPROVE IT FOR THE OTHER. IT'S, YOU CONSIDER IT BASED ON THE UNIQUE CONSIDERATIONS OF EACH PROPOSAL. SO, UM, THAT IS THE, THE LEGAL TAKE ON IT, CERTAINLY. BUT IT, OF COURSE, THE, THE, THE REALITY OF THAT IS, IS IT'S HARD TO TELL ONE BUSINESS ONE THING, AND THEN THE BUSINESS NEXT DOOR OR THE OTHER. YEAH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE POINT I WAS MAKING. I, I THINK THAT'S THE FEAR THAT I ALREADY HAVE, IS WHO COMES NEXT IN THOSE TENANTS THAT ARE VACANT, AND WHERE DO WE SAY YES OR NO TO WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE CLEAR SIGNAGE. LIKE FOR ME, FROST BANK RIGHT NOW DOES NOT NEED A POLL SIGN, EVEN THOUGH WE MERITORIOUSLY GAVE THEM THE GRANT TO DO SO. 'CAUSE IT'S SO CLEAR THAT IT'S FROST BANK, SO IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S OVERKILL FOR THEM. AND THEN WHO COMES NEXT? SO I DO THINK IT'S GONNA BECOME A BIGGER ISSUE FOR BELTLINE, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA SET THAT PRECEDENT OR HAVE SET THE PRECEDENT. I'LL JUST BRIEFLY ADDRESS THAT. SO THAT PARTICULAR EXCEPTION IS UNIQUE TO ADDISON TOWN CENTER POLL SIGNS ARE PERMITTED ALONG BELTLINE GENERALLY. HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THERE'S A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY WITHIN SPECIAL SIGN DISTRICTS. SO THAT WAS APPLIED TO THAT SPECIFIC SCENARIO AT THAT PARTICULAR SITE. I HOPE THAT PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT OF CLARIFICATION AND A LITTLE BIT HUMPING CHOOSE TO OWN THE ONE SMALL SIGN THAT SAL AND GO SORT OF TOOK OVER, RIGHT? I MEAN, IN A SENSE, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROST BANK SIGNED, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LEAD TENANT, I GUESS, IN THAT, THAT CORNER. MM-HMM. . SO WHAT LESLIE'S GETTING AT IS BECAUSE ADDISON TOWN CENTER AT ONE POINT, ESSENTIALLY HAD A SPECIAL, AND IT DOES HAVE A SPECIAL SIGN DISTRICT, IT DEVIATED FROM THE BASE CODE IN THE TOWN WHERE IN MOST PLACES IT, YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR AM MERITORIOUS EXCEPTION. YOU JUST SUBMIT A PERMIT THAT COMPLIES [01:05:01] WITH THE TOWN STANDARDS FOR POLL SIGNS, AND THEY WILL APPROVE IT AND THEY CAN DO IT BY RIGHT. OKAY, THANK YOU. BUT, BUT ONE THING WE CAN CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, IS PUTTING LIMITATIONS ON WHEN THAT ALTERNATIVE SIGN AUTHORITY CAN BE USED. WE'RE WE'VE, WE'VE OPENED UP THAT BOX OF HOW THAT PROCEDURE IS CHANGED DURING THIS PROCESS. AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, SOME COMMUNITIES WOULD SAY, WELL, MAYBE A VARIANCE IS AVAILABLE IN ALL THESE SITUATIONS EXCEPT X, Y, AND Z. AND YOU CAN SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, PUT LIMITATIONS IN THE CODE ABOUT WHEN YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO. YEAH. I WOULD LIKE TO CONVEY THAT WE DO PUT SOME STANDARD DOWN SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT EXAMPLE ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME THE PRECEDENT. YEAH. CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT SECOND BULLET THERE ON CHANGING THE AUTHORITY? UM, I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTAND WHY, WHY THAT, WHY WE WENT THAT DIRECTION. SO AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECTLY, THAT ANY SIGNED VARIANCE REQUESTS WOULD NOT EVEN COME TO COUNCIL? THAT IS, THAT IS HOW THAT'S DRAFTED. UM, SO, UM, WITH ALL OF OUR, UH, VARIOUS DEVELOPMENT, UH, CONSIDERATIONS, UH, VARIANCES ARE NOT TYPICALLY CONSIDERED BY COUNCIL. UH, TYPICALLY THEY'D BE CONSIDERED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING OF ADJUSTMENTS. UH, WE FELT LIKE, UH, GIVEN THAT THE COMMISSION HAS A PORTFOLIO THAT IS, UH, COMPLETELY DRIVEN ON DEVELOPMENT, AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT, UH, NOT ONLY, UH, OVERALL DEVELOPMENT OF SPECIFIC SITES, UH, THEY'RE LOOKING AT AND INVOLVED IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING SMALL AREA PLANNING PROGRAMS, UH, THAT IT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF AUTHORITY TO GIVE TO THEM, GIVEN THAT THE COUNCIL HAS A BROAD RANGE OF, UH, POLICY AREAS THAT THEY'RE ADDRESSING, UH, UH, ABOVE AND BEYOND, UH, ZONING AND LAND USE ISSUES. SO THAT WAS KIND OF THE, THE RATIONALE FOR THAT. UM, BUT WE'RE HERE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON IT, SO SURE. IF YEAH. YEAH. AND, AND, AND I, I TOTALLY GET THE REASONING, AND I THINK GENERALLY WE, WE BOTH VOTE ALONG WITH WHAT P AND Z DOES BECAUSE THEY, THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND THEY DO THE ANALYSIS AND TALK THROUGH IT ALL, AND WE GENERALLY FALL IN LINE WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING. MY CONCERN IS THAT HAVING THAT SITUATION LIKE THAT WHERE WE'RE COMPLETELY HANDS OFF OF IT WHEN SOMEBODY HAS AN ISSUE OR A QUESTION OR A COMPLAINT, WHO DO THEY GO TO? THEY DON'T GO TO P AND Z, THEY COME TO US. AND SO THEN IT'S, WELL, THAT'S NOT MY DEPARTMENT. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT. I DON'T REALLY LIKE HAVING TO RESPOND THAT WAY, AND I WOULDN'T RESPOND THAT WAY. BUT YOU, YOU GET MY POINT. MM-HMM, , I, I JUST HAVE SOME CONCERN THAT, THAT BEING HANDS OFF OF IT IS, IS NOT, MAYBE THAT'S, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT OTHER CITIES DO, AND MAYBE, MAYBE THAT'S, MAYBE, I'M JUST THINKING, WELL, THAT'S THE WAY WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT, BUT WHICH IS NOT THE RIGHT REASON TO KEEP DOING IT. BUT, UM, I JUST HAVE SOME CONCERN THAT, UH, THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY INPUT AND, UM, RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE DECISIONS. AND, AND I'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT OTHERS THINK AS WELL. KEN, THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS MADE IN THE, UH, NOVEMBER 15TH, 2023, UH, MEETING THAT YOU HAD WITH, LET'S SEE, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8. WERE THERE EIGHT, UM, PEOPLE ATTENDING THAT PARTICULAR MEETING? UH, WERE THERE ADJUSTMENTS MADE TO THE DOCUMENT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE DURING THAT CONVERSATION? NO. THE PROCESS IS TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE DOCUMENT, UM, WHEN WE, UH, GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE SUBMITTING, UH, THE DRAFT CODE, UH, ASSEMBLED CODE. UH, SO AS THEY MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY'RE GONNA GIVE YOU A RED LINE DOCUMENT REFLECTING ALL THE CHANGES FROM WHAT WE PRESENTED TO YOU, TO WHAT WE, THEY MODIFIED BASED ON THE FEEDBACK RECEIVED. UM, AND SO THAT WILL ADDRESS THE COMMENTS, WELL, WELL, SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE. I'LL REVIEW THEM PRETTY MUCH WITH THE MAYOR'S INSINUATING HERE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY HERE FOR THIS. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE P AND Z IS THE PLACE TO HAVE THIS PARTICULAR, ANY MAJOR DECISIONS BEING MADE, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT AN ELECTED BODY. UH, THEY'RE GONNA BE COMING NOT TO GOING TO THE P AND Z, THE RESIDENTS AND HAVING CHALLENGES. AND SO THE P AND Z WILL, WILL, TOP B IS, UH, NO, THEY MAY NOT HAVE AS MUCH AUTHORITY TO, UH, TO, UH, MAKE A DECISION, UH, BASED FOR THE WHOLE, BASED ON, FOR SOMETHING FOR THE WHOLE TOWN. DOES THAT MAKE [01:10:01] SENSE? DOES THAT, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU, TOM? SAY, OKAY, , YEAH, I HAVE IT GQ. I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ALSO. GO AHEAD. IT DOES MAKE SENSE, AND I, THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS PNZ IS DEEP DIVING INTO IT, AND THEY DO THIS MORE OFTEN, AND THEY THINK A LITTLE CLOSER TO THAT. HUH? COME ON. YEP. OKAY. SO PNZ IS DEEP DIVING INTO THIS, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT IT MORE OFTEN THAN WE ARE. AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, MORE, UH, AWARE AND INVOLVED IN IT. SO WHEN IT COMES TO US, I TAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY STRONGLY. BUT I DO THINK THAT EXTRA CYCLE TO GO THROUGH COUNCIL IS, IS VERY NECESSARY. AND I THINK, I THINK IT SHOULD GO SAME PROCESS, P AND Z AND THEN COUNCIL. SO I'M, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU. SO THERE MAY BE SOME, SOME MINOR ITEMS THAT WE CAN, THAT THAT DECISION CAN BE MADE THERE, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE CHALLENGING TOO. WE DON'T, P AND Z DOESN'T SEE 'EM NOW, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT. NO, NO. SO WHAT THAT'S, I'M GONNA SAY IT'S MERITORIOUS EXCEPTION. SO STRAIGHT TO COUNCIL, WE WOULD RECOMMEND ONE BODY OR THE OTHER. UM, WE FOUGHT, WAIT, WILL YOU ANSWER BRUCE'S QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS THE PRACTICE AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, IF THERE IS A MAJORITY WOMAN? IT VARIES GREATLY. UM, I CAN OFFER AN EXAMPLE. SO ONE OF OUR OTHER CLIENTS, WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO IS THEY'VE CREATED A SIGNED BOARD OF APPEALS, AND IT'S THEIR BZA. AND SO THE BZA SITS AS BOTH. SO THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE. TYPICALLY, COUNSELS DON'T, UH, TAKE ON APPEALS AND VARIANCES. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT HERE, IT'S JUST NOT, IT'S LESS TYPICAL, BUT IT'S, IT'S APPROPRIATE. SO IF THAT'S THE, THE PREFERENCE, UH, WE HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THAT AS, UH, STAFF. I, I GUESS I, I'M GONNA THROW BACK AT YOU GUYS, LIKE, DOESN'T THAT JUST TAKE SOMETHING OFF OF YOUR, LIKE, SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN'T GRIPE TO YOU ABOUT? I MEAN, THAT'S NOT NO'S, THAT'S ONE, THAT'S ONE MORE YOU DON'T GET BITCHED ABOUT BECAUSE IT'S NOT YOUR ISSUE. I DIDN'T DO IT. THAT GROUP DID IT. THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE. BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO, BUT I DON'T THINK SKIRT THAT THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER YOU WANNA GIVE, THOUGH. I, I MEAN, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE IN GIVING THAT ANSWER THAT, OH, THAT'S NOT MY JOB. YOU KNOW, YOU STILL, NO, IT'S NOT YOUR AUTHORITY. I MEAN, LIKE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE TOWN MAKES FOR DECISIONS. I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING TO YOU, I, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT I, I DON'T KNOW, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A, I WOULD TRY TO, I GUESS I, I WOULD PREFER TO MANAGE BY A LITTLE BIT OF DELEGATION TO THE, THE POWERS THAT YOU HAVE. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL TAKE IT UPON YOURSELF TO PICK PEOPLE THAT YOU THINK ARE EDUCATED AND UNDERSTAND P AND Z PRACTICE AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS BUSINESS. I MEAN, AT LEAST THREE OF THE FIVE OF US SITTING HERE ARE IN REAL ESTATE. I MEAN, WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS ALL THE TIME. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S GONNA BE THE BODY THAT'S ALWAYS PURE REPRESENTATIVE THERE, BUT I THINK YOU GOTTA, THAT SHOULD BE FACTORS THAT IF YOU GIVE THIS POWER TO PLANNING AND ZONING, IS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN THERE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING TOO. I MEAN, THAT'S JUST MY 2 CENTS. AND I GUESS A QUESTION, THIS IS AUTHORITY OVER THE, IT'S COMMERCIAL SIGNS, RIGHT? THIS IS NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH RESIDENT. I MEAN, WHO'S GONNA COMPLAIN THE BUSINESSES? IT SHOULDN'T BE RESIDENTS THAT ELECT YOU GUYS, RIGHT? THIS SHOULD BE, THEY'RE GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT THEY SEE DRIVING DOWN. THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. I MEAN, I MEAN, THEY'LL COMPLAIN. WELL, YEAH, THEY'LL COMPLAIN TO US. AND YEAH, THE COMMUNITY IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST RESIDENTS TOO. WELL, SURE, BUT I MEAN, SOMEBODY WHO'S MUCH LIKE, WE'RE ELECTED BY THESE FOLKS, I MEAN, THE BUSINESS OWNERS, IT'S NOT THE SAME WITH THAT. SO, I MEAN, IT JUST, THE THING I WOULD, I WOULD SHARE ANECDOTALLY, AGAIN, IS WHEN WE BRING THESE THINGS TO COUNCIL, I CAN'T THINK OF A TIME WHERE SOMEONE HAS SHOWN UP TO, TO TALK, WANNA TALK ABOUT IT, OR SHOWN UP, UH, OR REACHED OUT TO ME BEFORE THE MEETING TO, TO TAKE ISSUE WITH A, A LOGO THAT'S SIX INCHES LARGER. SO IT, IT'S, THEY'RE TYPICALLY PRETTY BENIGN ISSUES. UH, I THINK MAYBE THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL ONE WE HAD WAS BENIHANA. UM, BUT IT WAS, I CAN'T RECALL ANYTHING WHERE IT'S, IT'S GOTTEN TO BE A, A HEATED TOPIC. I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA CLARIFY MY COMMENT. I WAS CONFUSING OTHER ZONING, I GUESS CHANGES, MINOR ZONING CHANGES GOING THROUGH P AND Z. AND I, I WAS THINKING SIGNS WENT THROUGH P AND Z TOO. WELL, I GUESS THEY DON'T. UM, SO THE, THE CLARIFICATION THAT COMES TO US IS FROM STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, THAT'S WHAT PUT THE SIGNS. SO, AND WE USUALLY DO GO WITH THAT, JUST LIKE YOU SAID. SO I WOULD BE FINE WITH IT GOING WITH ANOTHER BODY IN THAT CASE, BECAUSE WE, WE ARE GETTING IT STRAIGHT FROM STAFF. UM, I WOULD PREFER TO KNOW ABOUT IT ON COUNCIL. I DON'T THINK IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME, BUT I'M FINE. IF IT WERE TO GO TO PNZ FIRST, I'M GONNA WEIGH IN ON THIS. I, I DON'T [01:15:01] WANT IT GOING THROUGH TWO BODIES. I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE ONEROUS FOR, UH, WHOEVER'S, UM, THE APPLICANT. UM, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO IN THROUGH BZAI, UH, I'M, I'M, I'M PERFECTLY CONTENT, UH, HAVING THAT GO THROUGH, UH, P AND Z. THAT'S WHAT I'M MEANT. UM, OKAY. STOP AT OR DECIDE PZ, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE I'M AT MYSELF. OKAY. WELL, WELL, I'M NOT MARRIED. I'M NOT MARRIED TO, TO THE IDEA OF IT. UM, I MEAN, I JUST THINK ABOUT THE, THE CONVERSATIONS THAT, UH, THAT I HAVE AND THAT, THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE WITH OUR BUSINESS FOLKS. I MEAN, YOU GUYS ARE MORE PROBABLY NOT AT, HAVE MANY OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS. I WOULD, I WOULD IMAGINE. UM, SO MY, I GUESS I'M JUST TRYING TO CON THINK ABOUT POTENTIAL PITFALLS. WHAT WAS THE ADVISORY'S COMMITTEE'S COMMENTS ABOUT THIS? LET ME FINISH MY COMMENT IF I COULD. THANK YOU. UM, JUST TRYING TO THROW THESE ON YOU, POTENTIAL PITFALLS. IF, IF A, IF A BUSINESS OWNER IS LOOKING FOR SOME SORT OF VARIANCE, YOU KNOW, ON THEIR, ON THEIR SIGN AND THEY KNOW THAT IT'S NOT GONNA COME TO COUNCIL, BUT THEY KNOW THAT COUNCIL APPOINTS THE P AND Z MEMBERS, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT BUSINESS OWNER TO START CALLING, CALLING, CALLING AND, AND LOBBY FOR THEIR CASE? CAN YOU TALK TO YOUR APPOINTEE? AND THEN IT COULD START TO GET A LITTLE ICKY IF I COULD USE A TECHNICAL TERM. AND SO, SO THAT'S, SO THAT'S PART OF THAT CONCERN AS WELL. AND, AND THAT MAY, THAT MAY NOT BE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS, BUT I'M JUST, UM, JUST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH THE, UH, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF MAKING A CHANGE LIKE THAT. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, AT, TO KEN'S POINT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF PEOPLE LINING UP ABOUT THESE, THESE ITEMS WHEN THEY COME TO COUNCIL. AND I DON'T RECALL A TIME THAT WE'VE VOTED DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT THE P AND Z HAS RECOMMENDED, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DO TAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION VERY HIGHLY. IT GONE, DONE DOESN'T GO THROUGH. IT DOESN'T GO THROUGH PZ NOW. YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN, I THINK, SORRY. I THINK, I THINK COUNCIL DOES TYPICALLY FOLLOW WHAT P AND Z TO DECIDES MOST OF THE TIME. BUT SIGNED VARIANCES DON'T COME TO P AND Z. NO, THEY DON'T COME THROUGH P AND Z UHUH. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU GUYS, WHEN YOU GUYS GET IT, IT'S COMING STRAIGHT FROM STAFF. I MEAN, GOTCHA. WELL, AND I GUESS IN YOUR SCENARIO, THE QUESTION BACK TO YOU ABOUT THAT IS, IS I DON'T GET, SO A BUSINESS OWNER COMES TO YOU AND TRIES TO WIN YOU OVER FOR YOUR VOTE. I DON'T KNOW IF I THINK THAT'S ANY DIFFERENT THAN COMING TO YOU AND TRYING TO, IF I WAS YOUR APPOINTEE, I DON'T, I GUESS I'M NOT FOLLOWING THE, WHAT THERE IS. WELL, SO I, I, I WAS UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT, UH, AND, AND MISUNDERSTANDING APPARENTLY THAT YOU ALL WERE GOING, THAT THE, THEY WERE COMING THROUGH YOU, UH, ALREADY, BUT, UM, BUT THEY'RE NOT. BUT, BUT, BUT I STILL SEE THAT AS A POTENTIAL WHERE SOMEBODY WOULD TRY TO GET A COUNCIL MEMBER TO PERSUADE THEIR APPOINTEE TO VOTE IN A PARTICULAR WAY. RIGHT? BUT WHAT I'M ASKING YOU IS WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT VERSUS THEM COMING TO YOU AND GETTING TO TRY TO PERSUADE YOU INTO THE WAY THAT THEY WANT YOU TO VOTE? I GUESS I DON'T, AND I'M NOT LOOKING, I'LL, I'LL JUMP IN. SO, SO, SO THE, THE DIFFERENCE, YEAH, I GET YOUR POINT. OKAY. SO THE DIFFERENCE IS THE, THE, THE PROPER PROCEDURE FOR US AND WHAT WE DO, AND WHAT YOU ALL DO IS YOU, YOU DO YOUR THING. AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T GET IN THE WAY, WE DON'T, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON WHAT YOU'ALL ARE DOING. YOU MAKE YOUR DECISIONS BASED ON, ON YOUR, ON WHAT YOU THINK GUIDANCE FROM THE STAFF. CORRECT. AND SO I JUST SEE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE THAT COULD, IT COULD CREATE A LINE TO BE CROSSED, YOU KNOW, JUST THROWING IT OUT. I'M JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT IS, WHETHER IT HAPPENS OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST, I, WELL, JUST TO INTERJECT, SO I DON'T, I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT'S HAPPENING BETWEEN THE P AND Z AND STAFF AND COUNCIL. FOR ME, IT GOES BACK TO WHAT NANCY JUST SAID, IS THAT ADDISON WAY WE TALKED ALL ABOUT IS IF SOMEBODY CAME UP TO US AND SAID, HEY, DID YOU KNOW THAT FROST BANK IS PUTTING A POLL SIGN UP AND THEY ALREADY HAVE LARGE SIGN ON THE EXTERIOR OF THEIR BUILDING? I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION AT THAT MOMENT. THAT, YES, WE VOTED TO GIVE MERITOR EXEMPTION SALADS AND GO SOMEHOW DIDN'T ASK FOR THE MERITORIOUS EXEMPTION. BUT I THINK IT'S MORE BEING KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE TOWN WHEN A SIGN GOES UP VERSUS BEING PERSUADED BY A BUSINESS OWNER AT ALL. I THINK THE TOWN STAFF FILTERS EVERYTHING. AND I THINK WHEN THE, WHEN AN EXEMPTION COMES UP, LESLIE WILL BRING IT UP TO COUNCIL, AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE VOTED BY COUNCIL TO SAY YAY OR NAY. WELL, I, I WANNA GO BACK TO CONVERSATION. I KNOW DEAR, AND I HAVE THIS A WHILE AGO ABOUT A DIFFERENT TOPIC IS I TOLD HIM [01:20:01] MY OPINION OF P AND Z FROM A, FROM, UH, LISTENING TO CONSTITUENTS, I DON'T HAVE CONSTITUENTS. I, I, I, I AM I LOOK AT MYSELF MORE AS A TOWN EMPLOYEE, EVEN THOUGH NOT TECHNICAL. I GET IT. I MEAN, WE ARE A LITTLE BIT, BUT MY JOB ON P AND Z IS TO LOOK OUT FOR THE BEST FOR THE TOWN. AND, AND THE VOTERS DON'T PERSUADE ME. I'M MAKING SMART, EDUCATED DECISIONS ON WHAT THE RULES IN PLACE AND WHAT I'VE BEEN PUT HERE TO DO. AND, AND IT, TO ME, I DON'T PERSONALLY LISTEN TO WHAT CONSTITUENTS, 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE CONSTITUENTS. I MEAN, SO, SO KIND OF BACK TO YOUR SITUATION OF, OKAY, YOU CAN CALL AND TELL ME YOUR ELECTED OFFICIAL, OR YOU KNOW, YOUR ELECTED OFFICIAL AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS WANT ME TO VOTE ANOTHER WAY, BUT MY RESPONSIBILITY ON P AND Z IS TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE TOWN. UH, ABSOLUTELY. NO, I AGREE. AND THAT'S, AND IT, AND IT SHOULD BE, I THINK IT'S A DIVIDING LINE DIFFERENCE OF FACTORING INTO RESIDENTS OR VOTERS COMING AND COMPLAINING TO YOU. AND SO I GUESS I DON'T SEE THE CONFLICT OF IT GOING TO, I'M, I'M SOMEWHAT INDIFFERENT ON WHAT YOU GUYS WANT TO DO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS I DON'T KNOW THAT I SEE THE CONFLICTS THE SAME THAT I THINK YOU GUYS, SOME OF YOU KIND OF COMMUNICATED NO, AND, AND I AGREE. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AND THAT'S, YOU'RE SPOT ON IN THE WAY YOU'RE MAKING YOUR DECISION. THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT BEING REELECTED. AND I, WE LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY COME SPEAK, AND THEY MAY HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT. MM-HMM. . BUT I STILL, IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, MY ULTIMATE DECISION IS WHAT'S BEST FOR THE TOWN. THAT CORRECT. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING. MY POINT IS, AND MAYBE I'M NOT COMMUNICATING IT WELL, IS THAT THE POTENTIAL WITH THIS GROUP, I DON'T SEE IT, BUT A GROUP, TWO YEARS, FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHO'S GONNA BE IN THESE SEATS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST SEAT HOLDERS. AND SO, SO MY CONCERN IS THE POTENTIAL OF SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS, THEY GOT A BUDDY THAT'S OWNS THEIR BUSINESS AND WHATEVER, THEY WANT SOME PARTICULAR VARIANCE ON THEIR SIGN. MY CONCERN IS THAT SOMEBODY THAT HAS MAYBE DOESN'T HAVE A LEVEL OF INTEGRITY THAT WE ALL MIGHT HOPE IS SITTING IN EACH OF THESE SEATS, YOU KNOW, 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD THAT THEY, THAT THEY GO IN, THEY GO TO THEIR APPOINTEE AND THEY SAY, LOOK, IF YOU WANNA BE REAPPOINTED, YOU KNOW THAT YOUR, WHEN YOUR TERM IS UP, THIS IS WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO. THAT'S WHAT, THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. BUT, BUT IF YOU HAVE THAT VOTING RIGHT NOW, THEY CAN JUST COME TO YOU AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, HERE'S EITHER MY VOTER, HERE'S SOME MONEY INTO THE TABLE OR WHATEVER. AND THEN COUNCIL HAS THAT, THAT THAT AUTHORITY. WHEREAS IF IT'S P AND Z, THERE'S, TO ME, THERE'S A LITTLE MORE REMOVED. I MEAN, IS THE ISSUE THAT IT WOULD BE P AND Z ONLY, AND THERE'S NOBODY BASICALLY TO CHECK OUR WORK AFTER WE'RE DONE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW WE VOTED IT, YOU GUYS COULD VOTE DIFFERENTLY. I MEAN, IS THAT REALLY THE ISSUE THAT IT'S JUST P AND Z ONLY, I THINK KIND OF AVOID YEAH, I WAS, WAS LIKE, THEY DON'T WANT ME TO DO IT TOO LEVEL. OKAY. YEAH, MAYOR. YEAH. I UNDERSTAND IT'S ONEROUS, BUT YOU, YOU ASKED A QUESTION. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT GQ AND NANCY, UM, THINK ABOUT YOUR QUESTION. WHAT, WHAT DO YOU ALL WANT TO NO, I WAS, UH, WHAT I WAS, WHAT I WAS, UH, GOING TO SAY AND WHAT I WAS THINKING AND LISTENING TO, UM, TO ALL OF THIS. I THINK MY CONCERN AT, AT FIRST WAS A BIT SIMILAR TO WHAT BRUCE HAD AS FAR AS BEING, YOU KNOW, UM, APPROACHED AND QUESTIONED AS TO, YOU KNOW, WHY THAT DECISION WAS MADE. HOWEVER, IN THINKING ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE, I DO THINK THAT THAT EVALUATION ON ASSIGNED VARIANCE FALLS MORE VERY CLOSE TO THE SAME DECISION MAKING PROCESS THAT PNZ GOES THROUGH AND TO DETERMINE APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL. SO I, I, I THINK, I THINK I AM COMFORTABLE IN SAYING I COULD ACCEPT THAT BEING AT THE PNZ LEVEL, I THINK IT FLOWS QUITE WELL WITH WHAT THEY'RE, WHAT THEY ARE CHARGED TO DO. AND, UM, AND I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS BEING APPROACHED BY SOMEONE, I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN IN EITHER SCENARIO. UM, AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF BEING ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WHAT THE VARIOUS RESPONSIBILITIES AND AUTHORITIES ARE. AND, UM, AND I, I GET, I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BRUCE, ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN DIRECT OURSELVES TODAY, YOU KNOW, THINKING OF THE POSSIBILITY THAT THERE MIGHT BE A ROGUE PERSON. UM, I, I, I THINK THAT'S, UM, SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH AT THE TIME. OKAY. WELL, I, I APPRECIATE Y'ALL TALKING THROUGH THIS WITH [01:25:01] ME, AND, AND I'M PERSUADED. OKAY. I'M, I'M OKAY WITH, WITH THE, UH, WITH THE CHANGE I AM FOR THIS PARTICULAR, UM, ISSUE ON, UH, REPLACING THE NOTORIOUS, UM, NOTORIOUS EXEMPTIONS AND, UM, WITH AN ALTERNATIVE SIGN SIGN VARIANCE. UH, I'M THINKING THAT THE, THAT THE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING SURELY CAN, CAN MAKE A DECISION. I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T BEGRUDGE THEM FROM MAKING THAT DECISION. I STILL, I LIKE THE IDEA OF, OF IT COMING TO CITY COUNCIL. I LIKE THE IDEA BECAUSE OF FACT THAT WE WERE ELECTED, WE'RE ELECTED OFFICIALS. WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ELECTIONS. UM, I'M, AND I'M, I'M NOT OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA STOP THIS IDEA FROM MOVING FORWARD, BUT AGAIN, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE, ON THE SIGNAGE FOR THE, ON THE SIGNAGE, FOR THE ALCOHOL RELATED ISSUES. CAN WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION TOO, ALONG WITH THIS OR, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT'S REALLY STICKING IN MY CRAWL HERE IS, IS THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE THERE. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE PARTICULAR, THOSE PARTICULAR SIGNS ARE, ARE CHALLENGING FOR US. AND THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN IN THE COMMUNITY. SO CAN WE START THAT CONVERSATION TOO? ABSOLUTELY. MAYOR FACED LAST CONVERSATION. I, I'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT BECAUSE ISN'T THIS PART OF IT YEAH. ABOUT, YOU'LL HEAR OF SOME MORE CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE WITH, WITH THIS PARTICULAR, THE ALCOHOL ISSUE. AND THAT MAY INFLUENCE SOME THOUGHTS, OR AT LEAST PROMOTE SOME MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. THESE ARE EXAMPLES. SO WAS THAT A, CAN I ASK A QUESTION RELATED TO WHAT HE'S REFERRING TO THAT MIGHT PROVIDE US A LOT OF CLARITY? SO IF WE, IF WE APPROVE, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT COME DECEMBER, WHENEVER, AND THEN, UH, WHOMEVER WANTS TO CHANGE THEIR SIGN TO LOOK LIKE THE PICTURE IN THE RIGHT, DO THEY NEED TO, DO THEY NEED TO COME BEFORE PNZ OR CITY COUNCIL? OR CAN THEY JUST, UM, JUST MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT JUST DIRECTLY WITH, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES? SO THIS IS A, THIS IS A LAYERED ISSUE. IT IMPACTS HOW YOU REGULATE SIGNS, BUT ALSO RELATES TO HOW YOU REGULATE RESTAURANTS. UM, SO CURRENTLY YOU REQUIRE ALL RESTAURANTS TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, AND YOU ALSO REQUIRE ANY ESTABLISHMENT THAT SELLS ALCOHOL, UH, FOR ON PREMISES OR OFF-PREMISES CONSUMPTION TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SO THE, THE TWO ISSUES ARE REALLY INTERRELATED. UM, I'M GUESSING MOST OF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR USES IN DISTRICT SECTION FROM 2019 MEMORIZED, BUT ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT WAS THAT WE WERE GETTING AWAY FROM, UH, REQUIRING AN SUP FOR RESTAURANTS. UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF A TWEAK ON THAT WHEN WE COME BACK TO YOU ON APRIL 30TH. 'CAUSE WE FEEL LIKE, UH, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, I DO NOT NEED TO HAVE JAMBA JUICE HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, BUT I MAY WANT AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT HAS LATE NIGHT HOURS, LATE NIGHT ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION. THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT MAY WARRANT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 'CAUSE YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH NOISE, UH, DISTURBANCES WITH THAT, UH, TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENT VERSUS A JUICE BAR. UM, SO, UH, WHERE THE R THE CONDITIONS RELATED THE SIGNAGE COMES UP, IS NOT IN OUR SIGN CODE. IT COMES FROM THES. SO IF WE'RE NO LONGER REQUIRING THE S THEN WE NO LONGER HAVE A MECHANISM TO APPLY THIS REQUIREMENT. COULD YOU, COULD YOU, JUST, LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE, COULD YOU JUST SAY ANYBODY THAT'S SERVING ALCOHOL HAS TO GET SUP, BUT IT'S NOT TIED TO A RESTAURANT AND HANDLE IT THAT WAY. AND THEN WE STILL HAVE SOME NEGOTIATION WHEN, 'CAUSE THE S U'S KIND OF A NEGOTIATED DEAL, RIGHT? IF THEY AGREE TO NOT DOING WHAT WE ASK THEM TO DO, RIGHT ON THE SIDE AND THE, THE CURRENT, THE CURRENT CONDITION OF OUR CODE IS IF YOU SELL ALCOHOL, YOU REQUIRE AN SUP. I'M NOT SURE, IN MY OPINION, I'M NOT SURE THAT NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO BE AN SUP. LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, OLIVE GARDEN SELLS ALCOHOL. IS ANYONE WORRIED ABOUT OLIVE GARDEN BEING A INCOMPATIBLE LAND USE IN ADDISON? PROBABLY NOT. BUT IF YOU HAD A LOUNGE THAT STAYED OPEN UNTIL 2, 3, 4 IN THE MORNING THAT SOLD ALCOHOL, YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER A MORE RESTRICTIVE PROCESS FOR REGULATING THAT. AND IN THE EVENT THAT THEY VIOLATE [01:30:01] TOWN ORDINANCE, YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO TAKE ACTION ON THEIR SEP, UH, AND ULTIMATELY IMPACT THEIR ABILITY TO OPERATE IN TOWN. BUT, BUT I MEAN, WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE? WHO'S MAKING THAT DECISION? RIGHT? SO IT'S LIKE, I THOUGHT IT'D BE EASIER, LIKE IF YOU SELL OFF, 'CAUSE IT'S THE PROBLEM'S GONNA COME WHERE YOU SELL ALCOHOL REGARDLESS OF, RIGHT? SO IT'S LIKE, HOW DO, HOW DO YOU CALL OUT, OKAY, WELL THIS TYPE OF RESTAURANT, I'M GONNA DECIDE THAT THAT ONE'S OKAY, DOESN'T NEED SUP, BUT THIS ONE HERE SEEMS MORE LIKE A BAR. SO I'M GONNA REQUIRE AN SUP. WOULDN'T IT BE MAKING MORE SENSE AND PROBABLY BE MORE LEGAL JUST TO SAY ANYBODY THAT SERVES ALCOHOL, SUP, BUT NOT NECESSARILY RESTAURANTS DON'T NEED A, A SEPARATE SUP SO THAT TAKES CARE OF JAMBA JUICE AND COFFEE BARS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. WHAT I WOULD OFFER IS, IS THE OLD SAYING, NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER 2:00 AM. SO YOU MAY, INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON ALCOHOL OR FOCUSING ON WHETHER IT'S A RESTAURANT OR BAR, FOCUS ON HOW LATE IT STAYS OPEN. THAT'S A VERY COMMON APPROACH TO THIS ISSUE. WELL, I'LL MAKE A POINT. SO WE'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD SUVS THAT, UH, COUNCIL HAS APPROVED WITH HOTELS. RESIDENTS INN WANTS TO SELL ALCOHOL. NOW THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY OPEN AFTER MIDNIGHT. I CHECK IN, I DECIDE TO GET A 12 PACK, GET HAMMERED. WHAT IF I'M, WHAT IF THE NEW CEO COMES IN FOR RESIDENCE IN AND SAYS, WE WANNA CALL IT RESIDENCE IN AND BAR. THERE WOULD BE NO SUP FOR THAT. THEY WOULD JUST GO AHEAD AND RESIDENCE IN AND BAR THAT COULD HAPPEN FOR CLARIFICATION. SO THEY COULD HAVE A RESTAURANT USE IF IT WAS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. OR PERMITTED BY SEP. IF IT WAS PERMITTED BY SEP, THEY COULD PURSUE AN SEP FOR THAT. UM, IF THERE'S NO LANGUAGE IN THE CURRENT SEP THAT ADDRESSES BEING, HAVING SIGNAGE RELATED TO A BAR, THEN THEY COULD CHANGE THEIR SIGNAGE TO HAVE BAR IN IT. BECAUSE OUR BASE SIGN CODE DOES NOT REGULATE SPEECH IN THAT MATTER. ONLY ALL OF OUR S DO. AND BUT THAT CONDITION'S ONLY TYPICALLY APPLIED TO RESTAURANTS. SO I'M NOT AWARE, UH, OF THAT LANGUAGE BEING APPLIED TO, UM, LODGING. BUT IT, IT'S, TO BE FAIR, IT'S KIND OF A, AN EXTREME HYPOTHETICAL. UM, RIGHT. BUT, OKAY, SO I'M GONNA TAKE IT ANOTHER ROUTE BECAUSE I'M OF THE SCHOOL OF, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU. ALCOHOL OR BAR BEING DEPICTED IN SIGNAGE PERSONALLY. AND THEN YOU HAVE LOSS, YOU KNOW, LAWSUITS THAT ARE KIND OF SUPPORTING THAT. YOU REALLY CAN'T DO THAT EITHER. WHAT IF WE DO SIGN ORDINANCES THAT CONTROL THE SIZING OF THE WORD BAR? I MEAN LIKE, LIKE GOOD VIBES WITHOUT SAY THE MARTINI'S GONE. SAY, THAT'S NOT THE DEPICTION WITH THE ALCOHOL. I DON'T FOCUS ON THE BAR AND GRILL IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S SO SMALL COMPARED TO THE GOOD VIBES. I MEAN, IS THAT A BETTER WAY TO CONTROL IT THAN, THAN IF WE REMOVE SUVS, WHICH I'M MORE, FOR PERSONALLY, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A MORE STANDARDIZED CODE THIS TOWN DOES PERSONALLY. UM, DOES THAT HELP ELIMINATE SOME OF THIS? IT'S THAT PARTICULAR HYPOTHETICAL WOULD NOT BE CONTENT NEUTRAL. SO YOU'D BE BACK IN THE SAME ISSUE. 'CAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO SAY, HEY, IF IT SAYS BAR, THEN IT HAS TO HAVE 12 INCH LETTERS. OKAY. OR BE FIVE SQUARE FEET. UM, SO, UM, WHAT I WOULD SEE, MY, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO, UH, COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE CASE LAW, UM, AND I, AND GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF INSERTING THIS INTO S REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAVE S FOR RESTAURANTS MOVING FORWARD, UH, AND HAVE APPROPRIATE SIGN STANDARDS. SO IT'S, UH, APPROPRIATELY SCALED, APPEAR HAS APPROPRIATE APPEARANCE, AND IT, IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE. IT, IT'S JUST, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF ESTABLISHMENTS IN TOWN THAT I THINK IS GOING, ARE GOING TO, UH, WITH HOW MODERN BRANDING IS, WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE AN APPROPRIATE INAPPROPRIATE DEPICTION OF, UH, BAR LOUNGE LIKE TERMS, UH, MODERN BRANDING IS, IS, UH, YOU JUST DON'T SEE SIGNS THAT ARE VERY OBJECTIONABLE THAT ARE ALONG THOSE LINES. PARTICULARLY IN A TOWN LIKE ADDISON WHERE WE HAVE A VERY LARGE CORPORATE PRESENCE FOR OUR, UH, RESTAURANT ENVIRONMENT. I JUST FOUND IT ALWAYS VERY IRONIC THAT THIS TOWN USED TO MAKE SO MUCH MONEY OFF OF THE ALCOHOL ALONG ADDISON ROAD. AND YET THERE'S SUCH A CLOSED MINDNESS OR OLD SCHOOL MENTALITY ABOUT SEEING THE WORD BAR AND A SIGN I DO. IT JUST IS VERY CONTRADICTING TO WHAT MADE ADDISON ADDISON AND WHERE A LOT OF ITS WEALTH CAME FROM AND STILL DOES TO THIS DAY. I MEAN, WE MAKE A TON OF REVENUE OFF OF THIS, BUT YET WE DON'T WANNA LET ANYBODY KNOW. [01:35:02] I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT THEY DIDN'T WANNA LET ANYONE KNOW. I THINK IT WAS, THEY'RE TRYING TO SET AN EXPECTATION WITHIN THE TOWN, BECAUSE REMEMBER, THIS IS 40 YEARS, IT'S NOT MODERN, RIGHT KEN? IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A MODERN, UH, SIGNAGE RULING. BUT WHEN, WHEN THE REQUIREMENTS WERE SET OR RECOMMENDED, ADDISON WAS ON THE EDGE RIGHT THERE, TOLLWAY STOPPED AT 6 35. THERE WAS NO, THERE WASN'T, YOU WEREN'T, UM, COULDN'T GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND BUY ALCOHOL ANYWHERE. SO IT WAS JUST VERY DIFFERENT. AND WHAT, AND OF COURSE, YES, WE DID HAVE THE MOST ALCOHOL SALES. THAT'S WHAT PUT US ON THE, ON THE MAP, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THE SEVENTIES BY SELLING DRINK, UH, OR SELLING BY ALCOHOL, BY THE, BY THE DRINK. SO, AND FURTHERMORE, SIGNAGE WAS THE SIGN. UH, THE SIGNS WERE USED TO INFORM AND NOT PROMOTE. THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE INTENTION IN ADDISON. SO, UH, YES, IT'S, IT'S DATED. IT IS, UH, I THINK IT IT, AND THIS IS GOOD THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IT AGAIN SO THAT IT DOESN'T CAUSE AS MANY CHALLENGES GOING FORWARD. I HAD TO PUT THAT IN THERE, YOU KNOW, THINKING THROUGH ALL, OR LISTEN TO ALL THE, ALL OF OUR CONVERSATION HERE. IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN WE GET THIS INTO COUNCIL, THE SOUND, THE SIGNS, NOT WITH THE ALCOHOL, BUT THE SIGNS, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION, THE POLICY AND THE STAFF IS WORKING. 'CAUSE EVERYTHING WE GET, WE RARELY OPPOSE. I, I CAN'T REMEMBER IN MY TWO YEARS THAT WE'VE OPPOSED, UH, WHAT THE STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED ON THE SIGN. SO THE PO YOU KNOW, BUILD A GOOD POLICY AND THEN JUST HAVE THE EXCEPTION MECHANISM. AND THEN WHERE DOES IT GO AFTER THAT? YOU KNOW, DOES IT GO TO PNZ OR DOES IT GO TO BZA OR DOES IT GO TO COUNCIL? SO I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE POLICY AND THE WAY THE STAFF'S WORKING, IT'S WORKING NOW. STAFF RECOMMENDS WE LOOK AT IT, LOOKS GOOD, HERE'S THE REASON WHY, AND, AND WE GO ON. SO IT'S, I'D LIKE TO SEE MOST OF IT BE DONE BY THE POLICY CAN AND EARLY ON I ASKED WHAT THE COMMENTARY FROM ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND WE KIND OF GOT OFF 'CAUSE I INTERRUPTED BRUCE. SORRY. UM, CAN YOU KIND OF COMMENT ON THAT? WELL, I I THINK IT KIND OF REFLECTED THE MAKEUP OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. UH, WE HAVE SEVERAL FOLKS ON THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE LONGSTANDING, UM, VERY, UM, INVOLVED, UH, RESIDENT CIVIC ORIENTED RESIDENTS OF ADDISON THAT WERE, UH, INVOLVED IN SOME OF THE EARLIER DAYS OF THE TOWN'S GROWTH. UM, SO, UM, THINGS SUCH AS, UM, WHO DECIDES ON MERITORIOUS EXCEPTIONS, THEY, UH, AS WELL AS, UH, THE ISSUE AS IT RELATES TO ALCOHOL TERM RELATED TERMS AND SIGNAGE. THEY, UH, KIND OF TOOK THE TRADITIONAL ROUTE FOLKS FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, UH, GENERALLY I WOULD SAY EITHER, UM, PREFERRED TO MODERNIZE OR THEY WERE, UH, MORE, UH, LESS A FAIR ON THE ISSUE. I I, I KIND OF WANNA BRING BACK OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON FOR EVERYBODY TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SPENDING ALL THIS TIME ON A COMPREHENSIVE USE PLAN AND, AND A LOT OF THAT COMMENTARY IS, YOU KNOW, MAKING ADD IN SOMETHING AGAIN THAT IT USED TO BE AND NOT BEING, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO GO IN THIS ROLE OF IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S HOW WE'VE ALWAYS DONE THINGS. I MEAN, IT JUST, IT'S, TO ME THAT'S NOT A VERY FORWARD AND ADVANCING APPROACH TO THE WAY TO RUN THINGS WITH SAYING, I MEAN, I'M SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD VERY UPSTANDING COUNCIL MEMBERS, ALL THAT KIND OF THING. I, I, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS A FACTOR AND WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS, IS THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE MORE A LITTLE BIT IN SOME OF OUR DECISION MAKING WHEN WE HAVE THESE KIND OF MEETINGS THAN JUST PURELY, UM, HOW IT'S BEEN IN THE PAST. YEAH. I WOULD JUST MAKE ONE COMMENT GOING BACK TO WHAT GQ WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE HISTORY AND YEAH, IT, IT'S, IT'S A DATED REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE OR TO NOT ALLOW THAT IN THE SIGNAGE. BUT I THINK AS ADDISON WAS GROWING BACK IN THE DAY WHEN WE WERE THE ONLY ONES NEARBY THAT HAD, YOU COULD BUY SPIRITS DOWN ON INWOOD ROAD AND, AND THAT THAT'S WHAT MADE ADDISON THE RESTAURANT CAPITAL THAT IT IS, HAD IT HAD THOSE, THOSE RESTRICTIONS NOT BEEN IN PLACE. I COULD PICTURE US BEING A WHOLE LOT OF THE PICTURE ON THE RIGHT LINE UP ONE AFTER ANOTHER AFTER ANOTHER DOWN THE ROAD. AND, AND ADDISON'S JUST A BIG BAR PLACE. IT'S ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT [01:40:01] VERSION OF DEEP EL AND DEEP EL NORTH AND YOU KNOW, NOTHING WRONG WITH DEEP EL BUT WE'VE ALL HEARD PLENTY OF NEWS STORIES WHERE THEY'VE BEEN UP AND DOWN WHETHER IT'S A SAFE PLACE TO GO OR NOT. AND ADDISON HAS A REPUTATION OF BEING A SAFE PLACE TO GO AND TAKE YOUR FRIENDS AND YOUR FAMILY AND MEET AND, AND, UH, SO I, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH MAKING SOME CHANGES TO IT, BUT, UH, BUT I WOULDN'T WANNA JUST OPEN THE BARN DOORS AND SAY, WHAT, LET'S LET, LET'S LET ALL BARS COME IN AND PUT UP A SIGN THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT. THAT'S WHERE I AM WITH THAT. UNDOUBTEDLY WE'VE HAD SOME CHALLENGES AS STAFF HAS HAD CHALLENGES. ONE OF THE, THOSE THAT I RECALL ON ONE OF THE SIGNS WAS KOPA WE COULDN'T USE, THEY WERE, NO ONE ESTABLISHMENT WAS NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD KOPA IN THEIR SIGN. AND, AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT A CUP WAS GOING TO OBVIOUSLY BILL BE FILLED WITH ALCOHOL. SO THEY WOULDN'T, IT WAS VERY CHALLENGING. AND WE'VE HAD OTHERS LIKE THAT. CANTINA LAREDO WAS OKAY. UH, SO, AND KEN COULD GO ON AND ON I'M SURE, BUT BOTH ME YEAH, WE HAD THE SAME THING WITH TACO BARATO. YEAH. YOU KNOW, DRUNK TACO. CORRECT. RIGHT. CORRECT. SO, BUT BUT IT GOT APPROVED. IT DID, IT DID. SO IT, THAT'S MOVING FORWARD, RIGHT? MM-HMM. EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE SOME REQUIREMENTS IN, IN YOUR CODES AND THAT DON'T NECESSARILY ALLOW IT, WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED FROM US? HAVE WE HELPED AT ALL? OR JUST ? . I FEEL LIKE WE'VE JUST REALLY MUDDIED THE WATERS FOR Y'ALL , THEY'RE, THEY'RE CHALLENGING ISSUES. 'CAUSE IT, IT'S, IT'S CHANGE AND IT'S SOMETHING, IT'S A CHANGE FROM SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES. SO, UH, I THINK WHEN WE HAVE THE NEXT DISCUSSION RELATED TO, UH, DISTRICTS AND USES, WE'RE GONNA TOUCH ON THE SUP ISSUE. AGAIN, THE OTHER THING THAT WE HAVE THAT WILL BE IMPACTED BY THAT IS HOW ALCOHOL SALES ARE REGULATED, UM, UH, IN TERMS OF THE BALANCE OF FOOD TO ALCOHOL SALES. THERE'S ALSO SOME THINGS RELATED TO THAT THAT COULD POSSIBLY CHANGE THAT WE HAVE TO TALK TO Y'ALL ABOUT THAT WILL IMPACT OUR REGULATORY APPROACHES. SO THE, WHAT THE DIRECTION I, I GAVE YOU EARLIER, KIND OF THE, THE THINGS THAT I THINK ARE MOST CONCERNING FOR ME IS LATE NIGHT HOURS AND WHERE YOU CAN, CAN DO A GOOD JOB OF CONTROLLING THAT. I THINK YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE CARE OF A LOT OF THE ISSUES RELATED TO SIGNAGE AS WELL AS, UM, ALCOHOL SALES KIND OF ORGANICALLY THERE. SO, UH, WE HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO DO, BUT YOU ALL DON'T HAVE ALL THE PIECES TO THE PUZZLE YET. THE USES AND, AND, AND DISTRICT'S DISCUSSION. WE WILL, WE'LL KIND OF CLOSE THE LOOP ON THAT. THANK YOU, MARLON KING, AARON. UM, I'VE GOT A DIFFERENT QUESTION AND, AND I'M NOT SURE IF WE HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE NOW, OR MAYBE WE, WE MIGHT WANT TO ADD SOMETHING, UM, TO OUR CODE, BUT, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SEE IS, UM, THE EXAMPLE IS TOWING SIGN, GENERIC TOWING SIGN. AND, AND NOT, NOT THE, THE CONTENT PART, BUT WHERE IT'S ATTACHED, HOW IT'S ATTACHED. UM, I SEE THEM SCREWED INTO LIGHT POLES AND SCREWED INTO BUILDINGS AND SCREWED INTO THE BRICK. UM, JUST, JUST ANY WHICH WAY YOU CAN. UM, AND, AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS THAT DO WE HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE? CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE TO SAY IT SHOULD BE ON A POLE OR IT SHOULD, MAYBE IT SHOULDN'T BE, UH, SCREWED INTO A A, A BUILDING. IT SHOULDN'T BE SCREWED INTO A LIGHT POLE. UM, IT SHOULDN'T BE SCREWED INTO MAYBE A, A RECYCLING BIN OR A, A TRASH BIN, UH, SHELTER, F YOU KNOW, FENCING. UM, YEAH, I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN REGULATE, UH, AS IT RELATES TO SIGNAGE. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WHEN WE BRING BACK A NEW DRAFT FOR Y'ALL THAT WE CAN, WE CAN ADDRESS 'EM. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO ON SLIDE 32, UM, FOR THE, THE TABLE THAT YOU HAVE, IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATIONS STILL FOR LIKE THE SETBACK FROM THE ROAD OR HOW FAR BACK THE BUILDING IS FROM THE ROAD? LIKE THE UH, WHERE MAY DRAGON IS THAT'S A LOT FARTHER BACK FROM THE ROAD THAN TABLE 13 IS, IS THAT STILL, IS THAT GONNA BE A CONSIDERATION? IS IT ON THERE? NO, I MEAN IT SAYS SETBACK, BUT MAYBE I'M USING THE WRONG TERM. THE DISTANCE AWAY FROM THE STREET. SO WHAT THE, THE CURRENT REGULATION IT RELATES, UH, WITH THAT IS, IT'S, IT RELATES TO, SO IT ALLOWS FOR [01:45:01] A LARGER SIGN THE FURTHER SETBACK THE BUILDING IS FROM THE STREET. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE. AND, AND THE WAY THIS TABLE IS DRAFTED, UM, IT PROVIDES THE, IT ALLOCATES THE SIGN AREA BASED ON THE LINEAR FOOTAGE OF THE BUILDING FRONTAGE. SO IT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HOW FAR IT IS FROM THE STREET. THE BUILDING IS NO FOR A WALL SIGN. OKAY. I MEAN, I, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE JUST LIKE AN EXCEPTION BASIS. I, I WOULDN'T LIKE THAT 'CAUSE I WOULD LIKE CONSISTENCY GOING FORWARD. SO THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE, THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT. OKAY. AND I, I'LL PUT THAT IN THE COMMENTS. AND ON UH, THE NEXT SLIDE, THIS IS JUST CURIOSITY ON, UH, SLIDE 33, THE MURAL. YOU SAID THE MURAL WOULDN'T BE REGULATED. IS THERE SOME OTHER, UM, APPROVAL OR OR REGULATION THAT THAT WILL GOVERN THAT? SO IT STILL REQUIRES, UM, A SIGNED PERMIT. IT'S JUST THAT THAT ENTIRE PAINTING WOULD NOT COUNT AGAINST THE SIGN ALLOWANCE FOR THE BUSINESS BECAUSE THAT WOULD LIKELY BE TOO MUCH OF THEIR SIGNAGE OR THE, IT WOULD BREAK THE 70. SO THE MURAL WOULD HAVE ITS OWN SIGN APPROVAL. RIGHT. AND THEN ONLY THE UM, AREA THAT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ADVERTISE THE BUSINESS OR HAD THE LOGO WOULD COUNT TOWARDS THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEP. SO ONE QUESTION FROM ME. UM, UH, IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE THAT TALKS ABOUT LIGHTING ON SIGNS? SO BECAUSE YOU SEE SOME OF THE LIGHTING THAT WAS ON SOME OF YOUR EXAMPLES, CAN'T REMEMBER AT THIS EXACT MOMENT. THERE JUST WASN'T CHANGES. MAYBE I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT IS EXTERNALLY LIT BY, UM, OTHER FIXTURES THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE LIGHTING STANDARDS, WHICH ARE IN, UM, ONE OF THE PRIOR DRAFTS AND THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. BUT I DO NOT THINK WE SPEAK TO INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED. OKAY. I GOT A QUESTION ABOUT THE, SOME OF THE SIGNS YOU GUYS LISTED IN THERE AS APPROVED BY BY. RIGHT. AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU CAME UP WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ALLOWABLE SIGNS POSTED ON GLASS OF A BUILDING. SO, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS, I THINK IT'S 20% IS IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT ON ANY ON, ISN'T THAT RIGHT? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WINDOW SIGNS? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SO IT WINDOW SIGNS, FIRST THING I'LL SAY IS WINDOW SIGNS ARE SPECIFICALLY, UM, DEFINED. SO IT WOULDN'T BE, YOU COULDN'T CONSIDER SORT OF ONE OF THOSE CHANNEL LETTER SIGNS LIKE A WINDOW SIGN. THESE ACTUALLY ARE IN THE WINDOWS. BUT, UM, ARE YOU THINKING 20% IS TOO MUCH, TOO LITTLE? I'M, I'M THINKING IT'S, I'M THINKING IT'S WAY TOO MUCH BECAUSE WHAT I SEE IS LIKE YOU CAN, LIKE MOST BUSINESSES NOW HAVE FLOOR TO CEILING GLASS ACROSS THE FRONT 'CAUSE THEY WANT THAT EXPOSURE. 20% OF THAT I CAN, I'VE GONE IN OTHER PARTS OF TOWN, NOT IN ADDISON, BUT OTHER PARTS OF OTHER TOWNS AROUND HERE. AND IN CERTAIN AREAS THEY'VE GOT A HUNDRED POSTERS. JUST, YOU KNOW, 20% IS A LOT WHEN YOU HAVE 80 FOOT OF, OF STOREFRONT THAT'S 10 FOOT TALL, YOU KNOW, AND I JUST DIDN'T, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THAT PERCENTAGE CAME FROM. THAT 20% JUST SEEMS LIKE A LOT. IT, IT'S A, WE DO CURRENTLY REGULATE THAT THAT'S AN INCREASE OVER CURRENT REGULATIONS. UM, WHAT'S OUR REGULATION NOW, UH, WAS 10%. YEAH. AND LESLIE CAN PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT ON THAT. THAT IS A, THAT IS ONE THAT I BELIEVE IS FREQUENTLY AN ISSUE, UH, WITH UH, MANY OF OUR BUSINESS OWNERS. YEAH. YEAH. SO OUR CURRENT WINDOW SIGNAGE REQUIREMENT OR MAXIMUM IS 10%. AND WE ALSO, UM, WE RUN INTO A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THAT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT, UM, THE CURRENT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT IS CONSIDERED A WINDOW SIGN. SO IF SOMEONE HAS AN OPEN SIGN THAT'S AFFIXED TO THEIR WINDOW AND CLOSED TECHNICALLY BY OUR CURRENT SIGN CODE, THAT IS A WINDOW SIGN. SO WHEN YOU SAY, OKAY, AND I HAVE AN OPEN SIGN, I HAVE A SMALL SIGN THAT HAS MY HOURS OF OPERATION OR EXCUSE YEAH. HOURS OF, OF BUSINESS, UH, OPERATION. AND THEN I HAVE AN ADVERTISEMENT SIGN, I, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A SUB SHOP AND I HAVE A NEW SUB THAT I'M PROMOTING AT THE TIME. A LOT OF TIMES SOMETHING LIKE THAT EXCEEDS THE 10% WHEN IN REALITY IT'S NOT, UM, REALLY A HINDRANCE AND IT DOESN'T IMPEDE THE INTENT OF THE CODE. UM, SO WE DID A SURVEY, THAT'S HOW WE CAME TO THE 20% ADDISON'S CURRENT REQUIREMENT OF 10% IS ONE OF THE LOWEST IN THE, THE REGION. UM, MOST OF THEM [01:50:01] ARE HIGHER THAN 20. UH, I WOULD SAY THE AVERAGE IS 25. UM, SO THAT'S WHERE WE CAME IN WITH 20 AS A PROPOSAL. UH, WE'D BE HAPPY TO REEVALUATE THAT. I MEAN MY PERSONALLY, I WOULD JUST, UH, BECAUSE I THINK, I THINK THAT LOOKS WORSE THAN SOMEBODY'S BIG SIGN ON THEIR BUILDING PERSONALLY BECAUSE YOU DRIVE BY THERE. 'CAUSE IT'S ALL HODGEPODGE. AT LEAST MOST, MOST BUILDING OWNERS MAKE YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF REGULATIONS TO WHAT THE, THE SIGN TYPE, IF IT'S A CHANNEL LETTER LIKE A DEVELOPER. SO THERE'S SOME CONTROL OF THAT, WHAT THEY PUT PUT IN THE WINDOW, THERE'S NO CONTROL OVER IT. AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT'S JUST A LOT AND MAYBE THERE'S SOME WAY TO DO IT. IT'S LIKE IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN A HUNDRED SQUARE FEET A WINDOW, YOU CAN DO 20%. BUT IF YOU'VE GOT A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU GET OVER A CERTAIN THRESHOLD, THEN THAT PERCENTAGE DROPS. I MEAN, I KNOW IT'S A LOT MORE STUFF FOR YOU GUYS TO DEAL WITH, BUT I DON'T, THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. SO, BUT IT, WOULD IT WORK IF YOU HAD MAYBE NOT, AS LONG AS IT WASN'T LIMITED TO ONE SIGN WITH THE, THE 20%, LIKE SHE SAID, IT WAS KIND OF THREE DIFFERENT THINGS AND THEY EXCEEDED AND YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT LIKE ONE BIG UGLY THING THERE. OR I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT REALLY ONE BIG UGLY THING. I'M JUST WORRIED ABOUT, I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT 30 UGLY THINGS. RIGHT? SO IT'S LIKE THERE'S JUST, HERE'S THE THING, HERE'S THE THING, HERE'S THE THING, HERE'S THE THING. AND I'VE SEEN IT IN OTHER PARTS OF TOWN WHERE YOU'RE LIKE, OH GOOD GOSH, WHAT IS IT? YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE BUILDING. 'CAUSE THERE'S SO MANY, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ONLY 20% 'CAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LOOK AT THE, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING FROM WAIST DOWN, EVERYTHING'S UP HERE, RIGHT? SO 20% YOU ALREADY HAVE, THAT'S A MOST OF THE WINDOW, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ONLY USING HALF OF IT ANYWAY. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH. SO I'M GONNA KIND TO AGREE WITH TOM. I I KIND OF, I HAVE TO GIGGLE A LITTLE BIT. I THINK OF CELL PHONE PROVIDERS WITH THEIR FLAG BANNERS OUT OF, OUT IN FRONT OF THE STOREFRONTS. THEN INSIDE THE WINDOWS THEY'VE GOT THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE NEW PHONE, THE NEW IPAD, THE NEW DEVICE. AND THEN IT'S, I THINK ONE OF THE COMPANIES EVEN USES LIKE A DANCING, UM, TOY DOLL, LIKE AN AIR DOLL. SO IT'S VERY DISTRACTING AND IT IS VERY CLUTTERED. YEAH, I AGREE. I I WANT US TO STAY WHERE WE'RE AT WITH 10%. CAN WE GO BACK TO, UH, TEMPORARY SIGNS FOR JUST A MINUTE, ? UM, I THINK FOR THE MOST PART, RESIDENTS DON'T PAY A LOT OF ATTENTION TO SIGNS AND THEY DON'T COMPLAIN OR HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT BUSINESS SIGNS, SIGNS IN FRONT OF BUSINESSES. IF THERE'S ONE THING SINCE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, IN DOING SOME THINGS IN THAT ASSUME IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN A RECURRING COMMENT COMPLAINT FROM RESIDENTS ARE REGARDING REAL ESTATE, OPEN HOUSE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS OUT FOR MULTIPLE DAYS AT A TIME. AND YOU KNOW, INSTEAD, YOU KNOW, I I I'M IN THAT WORLD, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I UNDERSTAND THE, THE USE OF THEM, BUT TO, TO, BUT TO DO AN OPEN HOUSE ON A SUNDAY FROM ONE TO THREE OR SATURDAY FROM TWO TO FOUR. AND THE SIGN THERE, THERE'S MULTIPLE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ALL OVER TOWN FROM FRIDAY UNTIL SUNDAY OR MONDAY RIGHT AWAY. AND YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE THE OPEN HOUSE IS . AND, AND THE, THE REALITY IS THAT IF, IF SOMEBODY'S GOING LOOKING FOR AN OPEN HOUSE, THAT'S A VERY 20TH CENTURY WAY FOR IT TO FIND AN OPEN HOUSE IS TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONAL SIGNS. BUT NOW WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ZILLOW AND WHATEVER REALTOR.COM AND PEOPLE GO FIND, DID THEY SEARCH FOR OPEN HOUSES AND THEY FOLLOW THEIR LITTLE NAV AND THEY GET TO THE OPEN HOUSE. THEY DON'T LOOK FOR SIGNAGE. AND I KNOW WE CAN'T CONTROL BASED ON CONTENT OF A SIGN, BUT HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE ADDRESS AND DEAL WITH THAT SITUATION? 'CAUSE THAT IS, I I I DON'T KNOW, I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HEARD THAT COMMENT OVER THE LAST DOZEN YEARS OR SO. AND, AND HELP ME MAYOR, UH, IS YOUR MAIN THOUGHT, THE AMOUNT, LIKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT IT SHOULD BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT, NOT AS MUCH THE AMOUNT. SOMEWHAT THE AMOUNT, BUT MORE THE LENGTH OF TIME. THE DURATION. THE DURATION. BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT, BECAUSE IT SAYS, IT JUST SAYS OPEN HOUSE THIS WAY DOESN'T TELL YOU WHEN, DOESN'T TELL YOU WHERE. I I MEAN THAT THAT JUST OPENS UP A HUGE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE. I MEAN, HOW ARE YOU GONNA ENFORCE THAT? I MEAN THAT, THAT'S THE, THE PROBLEM OF THAT NOW I GUESS I WOULD THROW OUT IS THE QUESTION IS A REALTOR'S ATTITUDE ABOUT IS IT'S A FORM OF ADVERTISEMENT TO THEM. I MEAN, SO IS THE ISSUE THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, GOT THIS PERSON'S NAME ON IT AND SHOWING AN OPEN HOU I MEAN LIKE, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A BIGGER ISSUE THERE THAN JUST PURELY SO NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT BECAUSE IT, WE, THE PURPOSE OF IT IS NOT TO SAY, OH, I'M HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE THERE. THE PURPOSE OF IT IS TO ADVERTISE THAT PERSON. AND SO, SO IT'S NOT ABOUT, IT'S IT'S ABOUT THE INTENT OF THE SIGN. IT'S, YOU KNOW, YEAH, THEY'RE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE, THEY'D LIKE YOU [01:55:01] TO COME BY, BUT THEY WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO, WHAT THE MESSAGE IS. AND WE'VE ALL SAID IN SEMINARS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE SPEAKER SAYS WHEN YOU'RE GONNA DO AN OPEN HOUSE, YOU NEED TO GO AND PUT 15, 20 SIGNS ALL OVER THE PLACE. SO THEY THINK YOU OWN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S WHAT THE INTENT IS. AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IF YOU HAD 10 HOUSES IN AN, IN AN AREA THAT WERE, THAT WERE GONNA DO AN OPEN HOUSE THIS WEEKEND AND YOU HAD, EVERYBODY HAD THE SAME PHILOSOPHY, PHILOSOPHY OF ON THE SIGNAGE, CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE? SO HOW DO, HOW DO THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M WITH THAT AND, AND I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ADDRESS IT. AND I'D LOVE TO HEAR SOME SUGGESTIONS. I, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SUGGESTION IS, BUT WE, I'M ASSUMING WE HAVE SOME REGULATION BECAUSE BUSINESS SIGNS THAT KEEP THOSE THINGS UP, A FOUR LEASE SIGN AT AN OFFICE BUILDING, IT'S PERMANENTLY THERE. 'CAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING THEM, BUT WE DON'T ALLOW THEM TO PUT UP FOUR LEASE SIGNS ALL THE WAY DOWN BELTLINE POINTING TO THEIR BUILDING, RIGHT? SO THERE'S SOME REGULATION THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THOSE GUYS FROM DOING IT. SO IS THAT SOMETHING YOU DO? BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT, YOU'RE RIGHT, I'M NOT GONNA, I'M NOT GONNA WANDER THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOOK FOR SIGNS TO GO FIND A HOUSE. I MEAN, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA FIND IT SOMEPLACE ELSE AND THEN GET A, YOU KNOW, GET A DIRECTION AND GO THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT I THINK IT'S, ONCE AGAIN, A REFLECTION OF THE ERA OF WHEN OUR CODES WERE DRAFTED. MOST OF OUR CODES WERE DRAFTED THE YEAR I WAS BORN . SO YOU, YOU TIMES HAVE CHANGED. SO I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY ANOTHER ONE THAT, UH, UH, WHERE THE ALLOWANCES THAT WERE MADE, REALLY, THEY WERE AIMED AT HELPING HOMEOWNERS IN ADDISON BETTER MARKET THEIR PROPERTIES WHEN THEY'RE SELLING THEM. YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED THAT AS MUCH ANYMORE GIVEN HOW WE, UH, UH, HOW WE PURSUE REAL ESTATE. SO I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT. I THINK THERE IS A FINE LINE OF THAT TURNING INTO ADDISON BECOMING NON-BUSINESS FRIENDLY FROM THE REALLY, LIKE THE BIG BROKERAGE SHOPS IS WHAT THAT, THAT'S ALL I WANNA SAY IS YOU GOTTA BE, YOU GOTTA WAVE BOTH SIDES OF THAT. YEAH. I DON'T SEE THAT AS BEING BUSINESS UNFRIENDLY THOUGH, BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT'S EMMY HOLIDAY OR UH, KELLER WILLIAMS OR WHATEVER, THEY'RE GONNA BE LIKE, WELL MADISON DOESN'T ALLOW WHAT OTHER PLACES DO IT. IT'S DETERRING OUR MARKETABILITY AND WHICH BECOMES A BUSINESS ISSUE. YES. WELL DO OTHER PLACES, KEN, WHAT, UH, ARE OTHER TOWNS MAKING ADJUSTMENTS TO THAT OR NOT? ? UH, I WOULD SAY MOST OTHER TOWNS DEVIATE SIGNIFICANTLY FROM US. AND YOU SEE THAT WHEN YOU, YOU DRIVE THROUGH THEIR COMMUNITIES. UH, IT'S A FAR MORE LIBERAL SIGN ENVIRONMENT. I WOULD ALSO OFFER THAT, UM, DUE TO THE SIZE OF THE COMMUNITY, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT THAT IS ABLE TO BE APPLIED TO THAT ISSUE IS, IS PROBABLY NOT AS RESPONSIVE AS OURS. UM, SO IT, THERE'S, IT, IT CERTAINLY DIFFERS. WELL, WE CAN CERTAINLY TELL WHEN IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE SIGNS GO DOWN UP. MM-HMM. AND THEN SUNDAY AFTERNOON THEY COME DOWN BEFORE THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS RETURN. THAT WAS A CHALLENGE AT A TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF IT STILL IS. WELL, I JUST, I WANT SOME CLARIFICATION. I THINK IT'S LESS ABOUT, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT NOT BEING AROUND. AND I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT US HAVING A CODE OF WHEN YOU CAN PUT 'EM OUT, WHICH IS, WHAT IS IT, FRIDAY AT FIVE AND THEN, THEN YOU HAVE TO PULL 'EM UP BY THE, BEFORE MONDAY MORNING. SO IT'S, IT'S, I THINK THEY'RE FOLLOWING THE LAW. UM, AND I'M, I'M GUESSING NONE OF US WANNA CHANGE THAT, THAT SMALL WINDOW OF DURATION. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHY I'M GOING BACK AND SAY, WELL, I DO WANNA CHANGE THAT. YOU DO. YOU DO. BECAUSE I DON'T SAY THERE'S A SMALL WINDOW OF TIME. OKAY. I MEAN THAT'S, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT, WHAT YOU WERE ASKING FOR. IT'S ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WEEK. ALMOST HALF. OKAY. WHEN YOU'RE DOING THREE DAYS. SO, SO ARE YOU, UM, ARE YOU ASKING FOR A LIMIT TO THE AMOUNT ALSO, OR JUST THE DURATION. NOT NECESSARILY AMOUNT, BUT, BUT DURATION, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE DOING A, DOING AN OPEN HOUSE FOR TWO OR THREE HOURS ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON, PUT 'EM OUT AN HOUR AHEAD AND PICK 'EM UP WITHIN AN HOUR AFTERWARDS. JUST, JUST THAT. OKAY. IF THE, IF THE OPEN, THE OPEN IS TO PROMOTE THE OPEN HOUSE, WOULD THE SAME APPLY TO A GARAGE SALE SIGN? OR IS THERE, THAT'S A DIFFERENT, IS THAT LIMITED? 'CAUSE YOU DON'T ADVERTISE THAT ONLINE? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. I'M ASKING, YOU KNOW, WHAT TO, TO ME, IT WOULD, I WOULDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO PUT A GARAGE SALE SIGN OUT THERE ON, YOU KNOW, WEDNESDAY IF THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A GARAGE SALE ON SATURDAY. BUT THAT'S STILL THE FRIDAY TO SUNDAY. IT FALLS UNDER THAT. IS THAT, YEAH, I, I THINK WE'VE GOT DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT LAWS FOR GARAGE SALES. OKAY. AND, NO, NO GARAGE SALE SIGNS, I BELIEVE. NO. WHAT IS IT? YES, [02:00:03] KEN, ARE YOU GONNA TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GARAGE SALE SIGNS? ? SO IS, IS THAT ISSUE ADDRESSABLE? IT'S REALTOR CHANGING THE DURATION, CHANGING THE DURATION? UH, YES. IT, IT'S IN THE CURRENT CODE, SO YOU COULD CERTAINLY MODIFY THE DURATION. THAT'S, THAT'S A CONTENT NEUTRAL REGULATION. OKAY. OKAY. GOOD. OKAY. THE, THE, THE PRACTICALITY OF IT IS, IS WHILE WE DO HAVE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WORKING PERIODICALLY ON WEEKENDS, THEY'RE NOT THERE 24 7, IT CAN'T BE A LIGHTED SIGN. IT CAN'T BE USED AT NIGHT. . NO. YEAH, IT CAN'T BE LIGHTED. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH, IT ALREADY SAYS THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GOOD. ARE WE GOOD WITH SIGNS? GOOD. ARE YOU BRINGING US SOMETHING? COMING TO YOU, MAYOR? FOR, FOR BETTER OR WORSE? THAT'S HOW WE BECAME THROUGH A DIRECTIONAL SIGN THAT YOU HAD YEARS AGO, BUT, AND YOUR MIC IS OFF, JUST SO YOU KNOW. . YEAH, I, DID YOU HEAR ME OKAY? HUH? DID YOU HEAR ME? OKAY? WELL, YEAH, I, I SAID FOR BETTER OR WORSE, THAT'S HOW WE BECAME FRIENDS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, WAS THROUGH YOUR DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE AT AN OPEN HOUSE THAT YOU HAD. AND I'M THANKFUL FOR THAT. YES. SO, OKAY. WELL, , WE HAVE A NEW TOPIC, A A NEW SET OF TOPICS FOR YOU. AND IT'S KIND OF GETTING INTO THIS ISSUE OF MOVING TOWARDS THE FUTURE AND THINKING ABOUT DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING THINGS AND THINKING ABOUT TOPICS YOU'VE STARTED TO COVER, YOU KNOW, WHICH, WHICH RESPONSIBILITIES SHOULD BE WITH DIFFERENT DECISION MAKING BODIES. UM, I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WERE REALLY HOPING TO KEEP THIS AS A TWO HOUR MEETING. UM, THIS IS A GOOD CHUNK OF MATERIAL HERE. SO MAYBE WE'LL JUST START AND INTRODUCE THIS AND THEN TAKE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE ROOM IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE CONVERSATION, OR IF WE KINDA HOLD THIS OFF FOR THE APRIL 30TH MEETING. DOES THAT SOUND GOOD OR, OKAY. I'LL GO AHEAD AND START AND JUMP IN. I'VE GOT TWO CHAPTERS TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT. THE FIRST ONE IS GENERAL PROVISIONS, AND THIS ONE I'M GONNA GO THROUGH REALLY QUICKLY. THIS IS JUST THE FOUNDATION OF THE CODE. AND THEN I'LL INTRODUCE YOU TO ARTICLE TWO, WHICH IS THE, THE PROCEDURES. AND THAT'S WHERE WE'LL START TO ADD MORE SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATIONS, UM, ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT, UH, THINGS THAT YOU ALL DO, UH, ON A DAILY BASIS. GENERAL PROVISIONS IS THE, IS THE LEGAL STUFF. IT'S SETTING THE FOUNDATION FOR THE CODE, THE TITLE, UH, THE EFFECTIVE DATE, ET CETERA. IN THE BLACK, ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE IS THE SUB, THE, THE SUBSECTIONS OF THIS, UH, ARTICLE. AND ON THE RIGHT, WE'RE JUST SHOWING YOU SOME IN THE BLUE, SOME TYPICAL QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE OFTEN ASK. AND, AND WE'RE SHOWING YOU HOW THOSE QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED IN THIS PART OF THE CODE. SO, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU FORMALLY REFER TO IT? WHEN DID THE REGULATIONS GO INTO EFFECT, ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. UM, I THINK THAT NUMBER FIVE, TRANSITION FROM PRIOR REGULATIONS IS, IS IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ORDINANCE THAT IS ADOPTED. YOU KNOW, WHEN A LOT OF PROJECTS ARE IN, IN PROCESS, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM WILL HAVE BEEN STARTED, SOME OF THEM WILL NOT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. UM, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THOSE THINGS? HOW DO YOU ADDRESS PRIOR APPROVALS WITH THE ADOPTION OF A NEW CODE? TYPICALLY WHAT THE CODE, UH, POLICY IS, THE A COMMUNITY'S POLICY IS THAT YOU PLAY BY THE RULES THAT WERE IN PLACE WHEN YOU SUBMITTED A COMPLETE APPLICATION. SO IF YOU GOT YOUR APPROVAL UNDER THE OLD CODE, YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THAT PROJECT UNDER THOSE TERMS. UH, DESPITE THE ADOPTION OF NEW RULES THAT YOU MAY NOT COMPLY WITH, UM, WE ARE STILL TALKING WITH, WITH, UH, KEN AND HIS TEAM ABOUT WHICH OF THOSE RULES ARE ACTUALLY IN THE CODE ITSELF, AND WHICH OF THEM MIGHT JUST BE IN THE ADOPTION ORDINANCE WHEN YOU ADOPT THE NEW CODE. BUT, UM, THAT'S GONNA BE IMPORTANT STUFF THAT THAT DOES AFFECT THAT TRANSITION PERIOD. QUICK QUESTION THERE. SO IS THERE TYPICALLY A PRACTICE, IF, SO, LET'S JUST SAY INFERENCES IS, WE'RE GONNA ROLL THIS OUT, JANUARY 1ST, 2025 MM-HMM, . IS THERE A A TIME PERIOD WHERE, LIKE PLANNING IS ZONING, LIKE CUTS OFF LIKE SEPTEMBER, THEY TAKE NO NEW APPLICATIONS DURING THAT TWO? OR DOES IT, IS THAT LIKE THE DEATH OF, OF PEOPLE COMING HERE? I MEAN, I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PREP 'EM OF, AS OF THIS DATE, NO, YOU GOTTA GO TO THIS FUTURE CODE THAT'S COMING OUT IN THREE OR SIX MONTHS OR WHATEVER. DOES THAT HELP THAT? THERE'S ALWAYS A POINT AT WHICH YOU HAVE TO DRAW A LINE AND START APPLYING THE NEW CODE. YOU KNOW, IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES WE WORK IN, THAT'S THE DATA, THAT'S THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE NEW CODE. UM, IN SOME PLACES THEY DO HAVE A SUSPENSION PERIOD, YOU KNOW, A SMALL PERIOD WHERE THEY TRY TO JUST PUT A PAUSE ON, UM, TO, UH, UH, LET THE, LET THE OLD PROJECTS WORK THEIR WAY THROUGH THE SYSTEM TO TRAIN THEIR STAFF ON THE NEW, ON THE NEW CODE. UH, ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE'LL WANT TO HAVE WITH YOU AS WE GET MORE INTO THE, UH, FINAL STAGES OF THE PROJECT IS ADOPTION DATE VERSUS EFFECTIVE DATE. AND, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THERE BE SOME KINDA LAG PERIOD THERE, COMMUNITIES OFTEN USE THAT PERIOD TO TRAIN THEIR STAFF, TO FILL, TO MAKE NEW APPLICATION FORMS, THINGS LIKE THAT. [02:05:01] UM, SO, BUT YEAH, WE, WE WILL HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS. UM, OTHER STUFF THAT'S COVERED UP HERE, NONCONFORMITIES, I, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF SLIDES ON THAT, SO I'LL COME BACK TO THAT. UH, GENERAL ENFORCEMENT, UH, RESPONSIBILITIES, UH, SEVERABILITY, YOU KNOW, IF, IF ONE PART OF THE, UH, CODE IS, IS, IS DEEMED, UH, UH, UH, IN INAPP, IN INAPPLICABLE, IN INAPPLICABLE, FOR SOME REASON, THE OTHER PARTS OF THE CODE STILL STAY IN PLACE. UM, AND THEN THIS IS ALSO WHERE WE HAVE GENERAL DESCRIPTIONS OF THE DIFFERENT BODIES THAT HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES UNDER THE CODE. SO RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE CITY COUNCIL IN TERMS OF ADMINISTERING THE, THE UDC RESPONSIBILITIES OF P AND Z STAFF, ET CETERA. UM, THE, THE BIGGEST ONE HERE IS NONCONFORMITIES. UH, NONCONFORMITIES COME IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT FORMS RIGHT NOW. YOU HAVE A FAIRLY, UH, SIMPLE, UH, UNIFORM TERM NON-CONFORMING USE IN YOUR CODE. UH, WE'VE TRIED TO BROADEN THE TERMINOLOGY SO IT'S COVERING MORE SITUATIONS. YOU CAN HAVE A NON-CONFORMING BUILDING DOESN'T COMPLY WITH MAYBE SETBACKS. YOU CAN HAVE A NON-CONFORMING USE. MAYBE THAT LIQUOR STORE IS NO LONGER ALLOWED IN THAT DISTRICT. UM, YOU CAN HAVE A NON-CONFORMING SIGN. THE NON-CONFORMING IDEA IS THAT IT WAS LEGAL WHEN IT WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED, BUT IT'S NO LONGER LEGAL UNDER THE NEW RULES. AND SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THOSE? YOU CAN HAVE A NON-CONFORMING SITE FEATURE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A LANDSCAPING OR PARKING THE, OR THE BUILDING IS FINE, THE USE IS FINE, BUT THE, SOMETHING ABOUT THE SITE MAYBE DOESN'T COMPLY. SO IN THIS DRAFT, WE HAVE TRIED TO BE MORE TAILORED IN THINKING THROUGH THE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS FOR THOSE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. UM, AND, UH, GENERALLY THE RULE IS THAT A NON-CONFORMITY CAN CONTINUE AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SUBSTANTIALLY EXPAND IT. YOU DON'T MAKE MAJOR INVESTMENTS IN IT. YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, REALLY ENLARGE THE BUILDING A LOT. YOU DON'T INCREASE THE DEGREE OF NON-CONFORMITY. IS THERE A CODE THAT IS COINCIDES WITH THAT FOR LIKE, DAMAGE? LIKE IN CITIES THAT I'VE BOUGHT IN IT, IT'S TIED TO MORE OF LIKE, SAY YOU HAVE A FIRE AND AFTER A CERTAIN, WHAT, WHAT IS OUR PERCENTAGE OF 50? YEAH. IF, IF YOU'RE DAMAGED, UH, MORE THAN 50%, THEN YOU HAVE TO REBUILD TO THE STANDARD OF THE NEW CODE LESS THAN 50. IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT CAN BE RE REDONE AS AS IT WAS. UM, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE NEWEST THINGS TO FOCUS ON HERE IS THIS SITE FEATURE IDEA AND THIS IDEA THAT IF YOU ARE, UH, IF YOU DO HAVE NONCONFORMING SITE FEATURES LIKE PARKING OR LOADING OR BUFFERING, UM, WHEN DOES A REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT REQUIRE YOU TO START TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS AND TO BRING THEM INTO COMPLIANCE? AND THE DRAFT SETS SOME THRESHOLDS. IT TRIES TO IDENTIFY BIG STUFF. AND THE, THE GENERAL IDEA IS THAT IF YOU'RE MAKING A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN THAT SITE, YOU NEED TO GO AHEAD AND BRING SOME OF THOSE FEATURES INTO COMPLIANCE. IF YOU ARE EXCEEDING THOSE THRESHOLDS IN TERMS OF PARKING, YOU'LL HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING SPACES FOR THE ADDITIONAL, UH, BUILDING, UH, SPACE THAT YOU'RE ADDING. FOR EXAMPLE, UM, IF YOU HAVE NON-CONFORMING LANDSCAPING AND YOU'RE MAKING A BIG INVESTMENT IN THE SITE, YOU NEED TO BRING SOME OF THAT UP TO COMPLIANCE. NOW, ONE THING WE DO IN THE DRAFT THOUGH, IS, IS, UH, PARTICULARLY ON LANDSCAPING, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY THERE IN HOW YOU DO THAT. UM, THE IDEA IS THAT OVER TIME, NON-CONFORMING SITUATIONS SHOULD COME INTO COMPLIANCE. YOU DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. YOU DON'T WANNA BE OVERLY, UH, UH, STRICT ABOUT THAT. BUT YOU DON'T WANNA ALLOW PEOPLE TO CON TO IN CONTINUE TO INVEST IN SITUATIONS THAT DON'T COMPLY WITH YOUR RULES. LIKE TYPICALLY YOU THINK SOME OF THAT MIGHT BE TIED TO, TO FINANCIAL, BUT THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO BECAUSE IT'S A 10,000 USER, 10,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING VERSUS A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT. IF YOU TRY TO DO IT MATHEMATICALLY BY A DOLLAR AMOUNT, IT'S DIFFERENT FOR ONE. SO HOW DO YOU TYPICALLY REGULATE THAT? OR WHAT ARE SUGGESTIONS FOR THAT IN TERMS OF THE, UH, THRESHOLDS FOR COMPLIANCE? LIKE, LIKE WHERE YOU WOULD CREATE THAT THEY'RE DOING RENOVATIONS THAT WOULD KICK IN GETTING TO CODE? YEAH, I, I CAN POINT YOU TO THAT SECTION WHERE WE'VE TRIED TO ESTABLISH THOSE THRESHOLDS. IT'S ON, UH, THE NONCONFORMITY SECTION IS ON PAGE NONCONFORMING FEATURES ARE ON 11 OF THE DRAFT. UM, AND THEN LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 12 UP, THIS IS WHEN CERTAIN FEATURES LIKE BUFFERS, LANDSCAPING SCREENING AND LIGHTING WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE. SO IF YOU ARE DOING, UH, UH, ANY INCREASE IN TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE VEHICLE, VEHICULAR USE AREA, THE PARKING LOTS AND THINGS, YOU'D HAVE TO BRING BUFFERS AND LANDSCAPING INTO COMPLIANCE. STRUCTURAL ADDITION INCREASES COMBINED, TOTAL GROSS FLOOR AREA OF EXISTING STRUCTURES BY MORE THAN 500 SQUARE FEET. SO WE'VE TAKEN A FIRST CRACK AT SOME TYPICAL THRESHOLDS FOR WHAT WE THINK IS, IS MAJOR. ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAD WITH THE COMMITTEE THIS AFTERNOON IS, AND WE ALWAYS SAY THIS IS, UM, ALL THRESHOLDS HAVE TO BE MONITORED TO MAKE SURE WE SET 'EM RIGHT. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GIVE THIS, WE WILL GIVE YOU OUR BEST GUIDANCE BASED ON THE PLACES WE'VE WORKED IN AND, AND THE EXPERIENCES THAT WE'VE HAD. Y'ALL HAVE YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES THAT YOU'LL APPLY TO THIS. BUT WE [02:10:01] ALWAYS RECOMMEND, I SAY, THE CODES A LIVING DOCUMENT, AND YOU NEED TO BE PLANNING FOR HAVING A WORKSHOP IN A YEAR AFTER THE CODE IS ADOPTED. AND, AND REEXAMINING SOME OF THOSE THRESHOLDS AND JUST SAYING, ARE WE HAPPY WITH WHERE WE SET THESE? AND ARE WE HAPPY WITH, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CALL MAJOR VERSUS MINOR? AND, AND THIS IS A GOOD PLACE WHERE I THINK YOU'LL WANNA JUST LOOK BACK AND, AND GET A STAFF REPORT ABOUT HOW OFTEN THESE NON-CONFORMING TRIGGERS WERE, UH, USED. AND, AND DO YOU THINK, DO WE THINK WE GOT 'EM RIGHT? SO, BUT THE, THAT THRESHOLD CONVERSATION IS GONNA COME INTO PLAY SEVERAL TIMES, UH, DURING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PROCEDURES. BUT I'M GONNA MOVE TO PROCEDURES IF, UNLESS THERE'S MORE QUESTIONS ON NONCONFORMITIES. OKAY. OH, YEAH. AND, AND THERE'S JUST, THIS IS THE FRAMING MATERIAL THAT IS IN THE FIRST PART OF THE CODE. AND THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE Y'ALL'S PICTURED. UH, BUT, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL IS JUST REFERENCED BY CHARTER. THAT'S WHERE THE COUNCIL'S ESTABLISHED. BUT THIS IS THE FORMAL DOCUMENT THAT ESTABLISHES THE BZA, THE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. SO THIS IS WHERE THAT MATERIAL LIVES THAT AUTHORIZES YOU TO HOLD MEETINGS TO, YOU KNOW, UM, TO ELECT A CHAIR, ET CETERA. THIS IS GENERALLY WHERE THE STAFF, UH, DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS, IS ESTABLISHED. UM, THERE'S LANGUAGE THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW WHENEVER THE DIRECTOR IS REFERENCED, IT'S THE DIRECTOR OR DESIGNEE, THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS REFERENCED HERE AS WELL. SO THAT'S, THAT'S JUST FRAMING MATERIAL. HEY, KEN, YES, WHO'S OUR FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATOR? WHO IS THE FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATOR, WHO'S OUR FLOODPLAIN ADMIN ADMINISTRATOR. WE'RE WE ACTUALLY, UH, JUST OUTSOURCED THAT. UH, SO, UH, WE LOST A STAFF MEMBER THAT WAS SERVING IN THAT ROLE, UH, AND WE JUST RECENTLY CONTRACTED WITH HALF ASSOCIATES TO SERVE IN THAT ROLE. THEY'VE DONE ALL THE SURVEYING AROUND TOWN AND THROUGH THE DIFFERENT PROJECTS THEY WORK FOR. SO THEY KNOW ALL THAT, RIGHT? YES, HALF, HALF IS, UH, REALLY GOOD IN THAT ARENA. SO, UH, WE'LL BE WELL SERVED BY THEM. THEY DID THE RAW HIDE STUDY, 2017 RAW HIDE STUDY. SO WHO DOES WHAT? UM, THE, DOWN, DOWN THE LEFT HAND SIDE, THE, THE NUMBERED ITEMS SHOW YOU THE ORGANIZATION OF ARTICLE TWO. UH, SO THERE'S A PURPOSE STATEMENT AND THERE'S, THE ORGANIZATION IS DESCRIBED, AND THEN WE HAVE A SUMMARY TABLE THAT I'LL GO THROUGH WITH YOU THAT, THAT OUTLINES ALL THE DIFFERENT PROCEDURES. AND THEN WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL COMMON REVIEW PROCEDURES THAT TYPICALLY APPLY TO MOST TYPES OF APPLICATIONS. AND THEN WE GET INTO ITEMS FIVE THROUGH 10, AND WE REALLY ARE BUILDING ON THE FOUNDATION THERE. AND SO ALL THESE PARTICULAR TYPES OF PROCEDURES ARE GOING TO BUILD ON THE COMMON PROCEDURE FOUNDATION THAT WE ESTABLISHED UPFRONT. SO THIS IS, THIS IS HIGH LEVEL. WE'RE GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH THE DETAILS OF THIS. NOW, UM, AS A REMINDER, BACK BEFORE SOME OF Y'ALL WERE ON COUNCIL OR COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS REG, THE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS ASSESSMENT REPORT. THIS WAS THE RESULT OF TALKING WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THE PROCESS COULD BE IMPROVED, WHAT WAS WORKING, WHAT COULD BE, UH, LOOK REEXAMINED. UM, THESE WERE THE BIG PICTURE IDEAS. AND ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT CAME UP IS, IS RELEVANT TO THE CONVERSATION YOU WERE HAVING EARLIER, DELEGATE MORE DECISION MAKING TO STAFF. UH, SOME OF THE IDEAS THERE WERE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA RESERVE THE COUNCIL'S TIME FOR THE BIG IDEAS WITH, WITH REALLY, YOU KNOW, BIG IMPACTS TO THE CITY, THE BIG POLICIES. AND SO MAYBE THAT INVOLVES DELEGATING MORE DECISIONS FOR THE SMALLER STUFF DOWN TO STAFF, THINK THROUGH BIG VERSUS SMALL, AND ALLOCATE OUR RESOURCES APPROPRIATELY AND, AND PRESERVE YOUR TIME. THAT, THAT WAS A, A LOT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD. UM, THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT ESTABLISHING COMMON REVIEW PROCEDURES. YOU HAVE, LIKE KEN HAS SAID, OLD ORDINANCES THAT DON'T REFLECT THE WAY BUSINESS IS ACTUALLY DONE NOW AND, AND THE WAY THINGS ARE ACTUALLY BEING ADMINISTERED IN YOUR OFFICES. AND SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING SITE PLAN REVIEW NOW, BUT YOUR ORDINANCES DON'T DESCRIBE SITE PLAN REVIEW, AND THEY DON'T SAY HOW THAT SHOULD BE DONE. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEEDED TO DO IS JUST CODIFY SOME OF THE PRACTICES AND, AND STANDARDIZE THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. UM, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD FROM DEVELOPERS THAT WORKED IN THE COMMUNITY WERE THAT ADDISON'S UNPREDICTABLE, AND IT'S NOT QUITE CLEAR HOW WE GET THROUGH THE PROCESS, AND WE'RE NOT SURE WE'RE GETTING A CONSISTENT TREATMENT OVER TIME FROM DIFFERENT STAFF. AND SO CAN WE ESTABLISH, AGAIN, SOME STANDARDIZATION THAT WOULD HELP IMPROVE OUR, OUR IMAGE AS A, AS A BUSINESS FRIENDLY COMMUNITY. UM, CODIFY AN UPDATE SITE PLAN. I TALKED ABOUT ESTABLISHED PROCESS TO ALLOW MINOR MODIFICATIONS. UM, WE'LL GET INTO THIS, BUT THERE'S THIS, I, ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT CAME UP EARLIER WAS THAT SOME TIMES YOU, YOU JUST NEED A LITTLE SMALL GIVE ON A CERTAIN PROJECT, A LITTLE, A SMALL AMOUNT OF FLEXIBILITY. AND SO WE'VE BUILT IN A TOOL THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES CALLED MINOR MODIFICATIONS TO ALLOW, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF, IF YOU'RE, IF A STRICT LETTER OF THE CODE WOULD REQUIRE A HUNDRED PARKING SPACES, MAYBE YOU JUST WANNA PROVIDE 90, MAYBE YOU'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE [02:15:01] SOME EXISTING TREES OR SOMETHING, AND YOU WANT THAT FLEXIBILITY. AND SO WE'VE INTRODUCED A TOOL IN RESPONSE TO THIS CONVERSATION THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD GIVE YOU THAT FLEXIBILITY. SO THAT'S JUST A REMINDER FROM SEVERAL YEARS AGO ABOUT SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE HEARD THAT INFORMED OUR, OUR THINKING AS WE DRAFTED THIS PART OF THE CODE. UM, NOW I'M GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH THE SUMMARY TABLE, AND I'M GONNA SKIP THIS SLIDE. ACTUALLY, THIS IS JUST TEXT THAT DESCRIBES MY SLIDE. THIS IS A TABLE THAT STARTS ON PAGE, UH, 20 OF THE DRAFT. AND IT IS DOING A LOT OF THINGS HERE. SO I'M GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH IT. UM, IT'S A, IT'S INTENDED TO BE A ONE-STOP SHOP FOR SHOWING WHO'S DOES WHAT IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE CODE. AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE COLUMN HEADINGS, UH, FIRST OF ALL, WE'VE GOT DIFFERENT APPLICATION TYPES ON THE LEFT, WE'VE GOT A UDC REFERENCE THAT'S A HYPERLINK. AND WHEN THIS IS POSTED ONLINE, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DIRECTLY CLICK ON THAT TO GO TO THAT SECTION. THEN YOU'VE GOT A SECTION ON PRE-APPLICATION ACTIVITIES. IS THERE A PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE REQUIRED? IS THERE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING REQUIRED? AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT THOSE ARE. THOSE ARE NEW. AND THEN WHO MAKES THE DECISION? UH, IS IT STAFF? PNZ CITY COUNCIL OR BZA AN R IN THOSE GREAT COLUMNS MEANS REVIEW OR RECOMMENDATION. UH, A DE MEANS DECISION, AND A STAR MEANS THERE'S A PUBLIC HEARING ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ACTIVITY. AND THEN, SO A REZONING SECTION 2 5 1, THERE IS A PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE THAT IS REQUIRED IN THIS CURRENT DRAFT. A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING IS RECOMMENDED. STAFF DOES A REVIEW RECOMMENDATION AS DOES PNZ WITH A PUBLIC HEARING. AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL HAS A DECISION WITH PUBLIC HEARING. UM, THIS IS A, UH, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK HIGH LEVEL AT THIS TABLE. YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT TRYING TO ENCOURAGE MORE DECISION MAKING WITH STAFF, DELEGATE MORE DECISIONS. ONE OF THE THINGS WE TRIED TO DO IS THINK ABOUT WHERE CAN WE GET MORE DS IN THAT STAFF COLUMN? UH, WHERE CAN WE POTENTIALLY LOOK AT MOVING DS OUT OF THE COUNCIL COLUMN, UH, INTO THE P AND Z AND THE STAFF? AND SO, UM, THE FIRST CATEGORY OF, OF PROCEDURES THERE IS, IS THE BIG STUFF. THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS. SO A REZONING, A ZONING TEXT, AMENDMENT TO THIS CODE, UH, AN AMENDMENT TO THE PLAN. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE WHOLE SECTION OF PROCEDURES THERE. UM, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THESE INDIVIDUAL PROCEDURES LATER ON. I JUST, I JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT OVERALL ORGANIZATION NOW. THEN WE GOT HAVE A CATEGORY OF SITE PLANNING, UH, PROCEDURES. AND SO, UH, WE'VE GOT CONCEPT PLAN, WE'VE GOT SITE PLANS. UH, THIS IS WHERE WE INTRODUCED THAT SITE PLAN AND CODIFIED IT, LIKE I SAID. BUT, BUT HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE'VE GOT A MAJOR VERSUS MINOR DISTINCTION THAT'S BEEN INTRODUCED, AND WE'VE ESTABLISHED THRESHOLDS THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE THE SMALL STUFF, THE MINOR SITE PLANS THAT STAFF CAN CONSIDER. UH, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD BE MAJOR. AND AS IT'S DRAFTED NOW, THE MINOR WOULD BE A STAFF DECISION. THE MAJOR WOULD GO UP THROUGH A, UH, A, UH, UH, A DECISION, A STAFF REVIEW, AND THEN A DECISION BY THE, UM, BY THE COUNT, BY THE P AND Z. THIS IS RELATED TO THE EARLIER CONVERSATION. PART OF OUR THINKING WAS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CODE UPDATE, CAN WE THINK ABOUT ASSIGNING A MORE SIGNIFICANT PORTFOLIO OF LAND USE DECISION MAKING TO THE PNZ AS PART OF THIS CODE UPDATE? MAYBE THAT'S A SIGN WAIVER, MAYBE THAT'S A MAJOR SITE PLAN. BUT THERE'S A FEW THINGS IN THIS TABLE WHERE THAT D IS IN THE P AND Z COLUMN FOR DISCUSSION, BUT THAT, THAT WAS IN, THAT WAS PART OF THAT THINKING. SO THAT'S THE, THE CATEGORIES ON THIS PAGE. THEN WE START TO GET INTO MORE SPECIFIC, UM, TYPES OF PLANS AND STUDIES, UH, TRAFFIC IMPACTS ANALYSIS, ET CETERA. UM, ALL THE D'S ARE IN THE STAFF COLUMN HERE. SO THIS IS ALL GONNA BE, THIS IS, THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF, BUT IT'S PRIMARILY GONNA BE TO HELP THE STAFF EVALUATE COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE, UH, THE CATEGORY OF AGREEMENTS, UM, WHEN THE CITY IS ENTERING INTO SOME TYPE OF, UH, A LEGAL AGREEMENT WITH A DEVELOPER, SAY THE SUBDIVISION STUFF, THE PLATTING RULES, UH, AND THEN FLEXIBILITY AND RELIEF. THERE'S A WHOLE CATEGORY OF PROCEDURES THAT, UH, THAT ARE INTENDED TO ALLOW CERTAIN APPLICATIONS TO STEP OUTSIDE THE BOX, UH, MAYBE TO GET SOME, UH, RELIEF AND SHOW A HARDSHIP THROUGH A VARIANCE LIKE YOU HAVE NOW. MAYBE A SPECIFIC SUBDIVISION VARIANCE, WHICH HAS A DIFFERENT, UH, PROCESS UNDER STATE LAW. AND THERE'S THAT MINOR MODIFICATION THAT WE INTRODUCED THAT ALLOWS, UM, MORE FLEXIBILITY. AND, AND WE'RE SHOWING THIS AS A D IN THE STAFF LINE BECAUSE THIS IS OFTEN GONNA BE A STAFF DECISION BECAUSE THAT MINOR MODIFICATION IS OFTEN USED FOR A STAFF DECISION. BUT THERE'S A FOOTNOTE THERE, THERE'S A TWO, AND IT SAYS, OR THE AUTHORIZED DECISION MAKER, THE, THE, THE MINOR MODIFICATION IS INTENDED TO TRAVEL ALONG WITH AN UNDERLYING APPLICATION. AND SO IF THE COUNCIL IS THE DECISION MAKER, THEY WOULD'VE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THE MINOR MODIFICATION. IF IT'S P AND Z, SAME THING. SO THAT'S THE TABLE THAT, THAT ANCHORS THIS, UH, THAT, THAT, THAT SHOWS YOU AT A, AT A GLANCE ALL THE DIFFERENT PROCEDURES. I'LL, I'M GONNA [02:20:01] JUMP IN REAL QUICK. I, LOOKING AT THE REST OF THE PRESENTATION, I THINK THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO STOP, TO TAKE A BREAK FOR THE NIGHT. THIS WAS A GOOD, THE SUMMARY I THINK HELPS. AND THEN NOW YOU CAN GO AND LOOK AT EACH OF THE INDIVIDUAL, UM, SLIDES AFTER THIS AND MAKE YOUR COMMENTS. AND THEN CERTAINLY BE PREPARED FOR APRIL 30TH. AND WE'LL DIVE RIGHT HERE ON THIS SLIDE. SO THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION IF Y'ALL ARE GOOD WITH IT, AND CERTAINLY OPEN UP FOR ANY FINAL THOUGHTS. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. COULD WE GET THIS TABLE AS IT APPLIES FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY? I'M SORRY, COULD WE GET THIS TABLE AS IT APPLIES FOR HOW WE'RE DOING IT TODAY? OH, A DESCRIPTION OF YOUR CURRENT PROCEDURES. GOTCHA. THIS TABLE, YEAH. A A MODIFIED VERSION OF THIS TABLE TO SHOW NOT WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED, BUT WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING EXACTLY. YEAH. IT'S A REALLY GOOD TABLE. I LIKE IT. YEAH. OVERLAY IT WITH LIKE A DIFFERENT COLORED FONT OR SOMETHING SO WE CAN SEE WHAT, YEAH, I'D LIKE TO HAVE IT ON THE SAME TABLE. WE, WE CAN DO IT. WE CAN DO IT. YEAH. I THINK WE ACTUALLY MAY HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT IN THE ASSESSMENT REPORT. SO IT'S, IT'S BEEN A FEW YEARS, BUT YEAH. OKAY. IT'S NOT AS OLD AS OUR ZONING ORDINANCE. , THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE. WE'LL SEE YOU ON APRIL 30TH. ALRIGHT. IT IS 8 21. SO I WILL GO AND ADJOURN THE, UH, MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IF YOU WANNA DO THE SAME, ADJOURN THE MEETING OF P AND Z. ALRIGHT. GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HARD WORK. THANK YOU, MAYOR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.